IRC log of #jetrowebdev for Wednesday, 2024-11-27

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freenaGood morning dcammue and scooper 10:51
scooperGoo morning freena and dcammue 10:51
dcammueGood morning freena 10:53
scooperDaniel10:54
scooperplease check your private mail10:54
freenaHow are you??10:54
dcammueGmail or novaweb mail 11:03
dcammueIt seems like Jeff is not in the note this this meeting right?11:15
scooperHe is11:16
scooperI think the time zoom had change again11:17
scooperlet see up to 12:0011:17
scooperif he doesn't  turn up after 1211:17
scooperYou all Freena could do a mail to him11:17
dcammueOkay 11:18
freenaOkay 11:18
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freenadcammue: 12:27
dcammueYes12:37
dcammueYes freena 12:38
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jelknerGood afternoon dcammue and freena 12:55
dcammueOh oh long long awaiting we have been today12:56
dcammueGood morning Jeff 12:57
jelknerThere we go.12:57
dcammueYeah12:58
jelknerI'm off from work today, and we have visitors, so I gog a late start.12:58
freenaGood morning jelkner 12:58
jelknerBest protocol is to email the day before with a meeting time.12:58
jelknerGood morning freena 12:58
jelknerOr good afternoon there ;-)12:58
freenaI'm so sorry jelkner 12:58
jelknerLet's just figure out how to move forward.12:59
dcammueWe guess the time zone change again right?12:59
jelknerI'm going to make the bank transfer today.12:59
jelknerYes, it is 8 am here now.12:59
scooperGood day everyone12:59
jelknerGood day scooper 12:59
jelknerGreat to see you all here!12:59
jelknerSo something occurred to me that makes things a little easier.13:00
scooperYou did not informed us in the change of time jelkner 13:00
jelknerI did, scooper 13:00
scooper-1 you did not13:00
scooperis ok13:00
jelknerThe time did not change again, scooper 13:02
jelknerIt changed in October13:02
jelknerI emailed then13:02
jelknerAnyway, it is 5 hours different now13:02
scooperAnd I did replied to your email13:02
jelknerAnd will remain that way until Spring13:02
scooperyou are later and much be fined my friend13:03
scooperhahaha13:03
jelknerLOL13:03
jelknerAnyway, let's get going, we have much to do13:03
jelknerI feel very strongly that you need and office now13:03
jelknerThere needs to be one place that:13:04
jelkner1. Is accessible to all coop members13:04
jelkner2. Has a generator13:04
jelkner3. Has reliable and fast network13:04
jelknerI was thinking we had to figure that out before I sent the stipend, but now I realize that isn't true13:04
jelknerWe just have to figure it out by the time Mr. Zawolo leaves for Liberia13:05
jelknerSince he can bring that with him.13:05
jelknerAnd soon thereafter, we need to get into a routine where there is almost always someone from the coop ready to handle communications13:06
jelknerSo maybe you can update me on who is doing what?13:07
jelknerdcammue, what are you and Shallon doing?13:07
dcammueFigure what out Jeff, and what Zawolo can bring with him?13:07
jelknerThe payment for the office lease!13:08
dcammueFor now, we have nothing doing 13:08
dcammueOkay13:08
jelknerWell if you don't change that, my dear friend, you don't have a business13:09
scooperjelkner, 13:09
jelknerSo you best get something doing!13:09
scoopercan we start with the Rural Clean Cooking Project now???13:09
jelknerscooper, i want to resolve this office issue13:10
jelknersince i am convinced that without a place to work, it isn't useful trying to work with jetro on a projecdt13:10
jelknercommunication is too slow and unreliable13:10
freenaWhen will Mr. Zawolo be in Liberia??13:10
scooperWhether office issue is resolve or not we need to starting getting use to working remotely.....13:10
jelknerand you can't get work done13:10
scooperwhen will Mr. Zawolo come to liberia13:11
scooper??13:11
jelknerfreena, our last day before winter break is 12/2013:11
dcammueIs it the first week Mr. Zawolo will be coming?13:11
jelknerfreena, it would be so wonderful if you would email him (and cc me) to start making plans13:12
scooperThat mean Mr. Zawolo will be in liberia13:12
scooperafter the Christmas right??13:12
jelknerduring the Christmas break13:12
freenaAlright jelkner, I will do that today 13:12
jelknerbefore Christmas until after New Years13:12
jelknerthanks, freena!13:12
jelknerdcammue, i am waiting for an answer to my question13:13
freena+113:13
dcammue+113:13
scooper+113:13
jelknerscooper, freena, dcammue, i am glad you are all here13:14
jelkneri am asking (demanding, actually), more accountability from everyone13:14
jelknertboimah and gwashington have done everything we agreed13:15
jelknerand dcammue and svaye did during term 113:15
jelknerbut they are off now, so we need to talk about what they will do to earn their stipend now13:15
jelknerand we can use this as a good opportunity13:15
jelknerdcammue, you and svaye are studying business13:16
dcammue+113:16
jelknerthe reason for studying business is to learn how to work in and possibly run a business13:16
jelknerwell, my friend, you are SO LUCKY13:16
jelkneryou have a business to learn to run!13:16
jelkneri want you to start doing that13:16
dcammueOkay 13:17
jelknersvaye is not here very much13:17
jelknerand janet is almost never here13:17
jelkneri here good things from luis about his work with mulbah13:17
jelknerjetro won't succeed unless *everyone* does their part13:18
jelknerso, dcammue, what is your plan?13:18
jelknerlol, bad spelling13:19
jelkneri hear good things...13:19
dcammueFor now, I need 150 USD to register the business first before going about doing anything else 13:19
jelknerwell why didn't you bring that up then?13:20
freenaAbout that jelkner 13:20
jelknerscooper used to do a good job putting the monthly budget in a markdown file13:21
jelknerjetro is now a may first member13:21
dcammueWe can not do business in Liberia if it not register13:21
jelkneryes and no, dcammue 13:21
jelkneryou definitely want to get registered13:21
dcammue+113:22
jelknerto conduct "legal" business you need to13:22
jelknerbut you can do work and bill SJC for it now13:22
jelknerwhether you are "legal" or not13:22
jelkneri have some many things i want to hire you to do13:22
jelkneri'm waiting for you to become organized enough so that you can:13:23
dcammueOKAY,  so here is the other issue office space 13:23
jelkner1. Agree to a deliverable13:23
jelkner2. Do the work to deliver it13:23
jelkner3. Bill for it13:23
jelkner*THAT*, dcammue, is what i mean by "doing business"!13:23
scooperJeff,13:23
scooperLike take for example13:23
dcammueWhen everyone is to their respective homes, we con not work together as compare to when we are together 13:24
scooperIf we successful complete the Rural Cooking Stove project13:24
jelknerwhy do you think i keep insisting on an office??!!!!!13:24
scooperwill it be consider a billable work??13:24
scooperIt will help us all gather one place13:24
scooperand work together effectively13:25
jelknerscooper, the beef i have with this conversation now is that i feel you keep trying to take short cuts13:25
jelknerinstead of doing the real work that needs to be done13:25
jelknerlet me say this13:25
scooperWhat is needed to be done Jeff13:25
jelknerif you do it together in your office, then yes, it is billable work13:25
scooper???13:25
jelknerscooper, to accomplish a task13:26
jelkneryou need to learn to make a plan13:26
jelknera plan of work13:26
jelknera plan of work will have many steps13:26
jelknersome steps can be done at the same time, some steps require the prior completion of previous steps13:26
jelknerthat's what a plan is all about13:27
jelknerdcammue just raised the concern that i have been having for a long time13:27
scooperI understand Jeff. Unit the office space is available can we use the same medium to accomplish a given task??13:27
jelkneryou can't work effectively without a place to work13:27
jelkneryes13:27
jelkneronce you have a space13:27
jelknerand i start to expect that jetro members will be there often13:28
jelknercan set up meeting throughout the week (not just saturday)13:28
jelknerTHEN, i can work with you on billable web work13:28
jelknerwe need to get to that point soon13:28
jelknerit is what is holding jetro back13:28
dcammueYes13:28
freena+113:29
dcammueActually 13:29
jelknerSo, here is another thing, young business manager13:29
jelknerHR13:29
scooper+113:29
jelknerwhat is HR, dcammue?13:29
jelknersince you didn't answer right away, i'll tell you13:29
jelknerHuman Resources13:30
freenaHuman Resource 13:30
jelkner+1 freena 13:30
jelkneryou are a coop of 813:30
dcammueHR is someone who check his or her subordinates or employees attendance 13:30
jelknernot really13:30
jelknercoops are democratic organizations13:30
jelknerwe will be having lots of conversations in the future about that13:31
jelknerdcammue, when you study business, you will be in a learning environment that assumes the private, top down enterprise13:31
jelknerthat's what gives me so much of a headache when i am studying ;-)13:32
jelkneri don't want to create unequal, oppressive, top-down enterprises13:32
jelkneri believe all people are equal under heaven13:32
jelknerand that all humans have dignity13:33
jelknerno one should steal the humanity of another13:33
jelkneranyway...13:33
jelknerdemocratic or not13:33
jelknerwe have humans, who do things13:33
jelknerthose are our human resources13:33
jelknerwe need to plan13:34
jelknerto use our human resources effectively13:34
jelknerwhen jetro takes on a task, like the Clean Cooking Stove13:34
jelknerwho will do it?13:34
scooperBase on the user story13:35
jelknerwho will be responsible for arranging customer meetings13:35
jelkner?13:35
jelknerwhere the user stories scooper just mentioned will be created?13:35
scoopersorry thought it was a question13:35
freenaThe business manager 13:35
jelknerthen who will implement those stories?13:35
jelkneri think ideally a pair of programmers would be best13:36
scooperprogrammer13:36
jelknerthat helps build the team, and if one of the pari is sick, or has a family emergency, or an aunt's wedding13:36
jelknerthe other one can still keep the work moving13:36
jelknerin fact, agile teams are even more flexible than that13:36
freenaThat's right 13:37
jelknerthe ideal is that any developer should be able to work on the project at any time13:37
jelknerthat isn't totally realisitic, imho13:37
jelknerbut it's a good thing to strive for13:37
jelknerso freena, we agreed when i was there last summer that you would play a lead role in helping coordinate the team13:38
jelknerNOVA Web has this issue too13:38
jelknerwe don't even have our infrastructure in place13:38
jelknernow that we are both May First members13:38
jelkneranother one of our key tasks is getting to know how to use that infrastructure effectively13:39
jelknerso here is a task, scooper:13:39
jelknerSet up email for Jetro Web Development13:39
jelknerfreena, i don't know how you want this process to work13:40
jelknerbut i am hoping you all will figure it out13:40
jelknerand then you will tell me13:40
jelkneri keep sending out these long emails13:40
jelknerwith lots of things that need to be done13:40
jelknermost of them just get lost13:40
jelknerno even remembers them13:40
jelkneruntil i get frustrated and write another email complaining :-(13:41
jelknerthat's a bad way to do things13:41
jelknerbad on my part13:41
jelknerbad on jetro's13:41
jelknerwe need to do better13:41
jelknerwe need a process where (and I am repeating myself again, and again):13:41
jelkner1. A deliverable is agreed on.13:42
freenaAre you talking about being more effective in responding to mails jelkner ??13:42
dcammueWell not where jeff13:42
jelkner2. Jetro manages the work and delivers13:42
jelkner3. Jetro bills for work completed13:42
jelknerfreena, responding to emails is certainly important13:42
jelknerbut i'm talking about the whole process of "doing business"13:43
jelknerbrb, i need a quick break13:43
freenaAlright 13:43
jelkneri'm back13:45
dcammueOKAY 13:45
jelknerso of all the tasks we have before us, i think these 3 need to happen soon:13:46
jelkner1. Finish registering Jetro as a business13:46
jelkner2. Set up email for the business through May First13:47
jelkner3. Get a place to work (an office)13:47
jelkner1. has to be done before 3 i guess13:47
jelknerif the business will be renting the space13:47
jelkneri don't know how the law works around that13:48
jelknernothing is blocking 213:48
jelknerso that can move forward now13:48
jelknerfreena, it is not fair to ask tboimah to do everything13:48
jelknerhe wrote a wonderful letter to may first13:48
jelkneri got the invoice, and sjc paid it13:49
jelkneryou should be members in good standing now13:49
jelknersomeone other than tboimah should take this up now13:49
jelknerwho?13:49
jelknerlike i said, what are janet and svaye doing?13:49
dcammueTboimah told me that he will work on it on Saturday 13:49
freenaYou mean being a member of may first??13:50
dcammueBecause he will be free that time.13:50
jelknerfreena, you are a member13:50
jelkneri mean learning to use the infrastructure that membership provides:13:50
jelkner1. email hosting13:50
jelkner2. web hosting13:50
jelkner3. next cloud calendaring and file storage13:51
jelknerjetro should learn to use all these13:51
jelknerSOON!!!!13:51
jelknerSJC can hire jetro to help us do that too13:51
jelknerif you learn to do it13:51
freenaAlright but are there any sources to that or you just need to figure it out13:52
jelknerusing the Next Cloud calendar and ToDo list13:52
jelknercould be a great way for you to start getting more organized13:52
jelknerthe calendar can have meetings and due dates13:52
jelknerfor jetro13:52
jelknerfreena, great question13:53
jelknerwhat is the first thing a web developer does when she needs to find out about something?13:53
jelknerwhere does she look, in other words?13:53
scoopergoogle it13:53
jelkneri hate to use that term13:53
freenaMake research 13:53
jelknersince i hate google, but yes, you are both right ;-)13:54
jelknerlet's give it a try13:54
jelknerfreena, scooper see if one of you can paste a nice URL here about where to go to get help learning to use May First membership services13:54
freenaOkay 13:54
freenahttps://help.mayfirst.org/en/explain/navigating-the-may-first-control-panel13:57
jelknernice work freena!13:58
jelkneri just want to say i really love working with may first13:58
scooperhttps://help.mayfirst.org/en/home13:59
jelknerit is a wonderful group of honest, dedicated people13:59
jelknerand skilled13:59
jelknerthey rock!13:59
jelknerand now that we are all members,13:59
jelknerthey is us! ;-)13:59
jelkneryou will find you can read the docs13:59
jelknerwatch the video training sessions they do14:00
jelknerand when you get stuck14:00
jelkneryou can file issue tickets14:00
jelknerand get help14:00
jelkneri am asking you to start doing that14:00
freenaOkay 14:00
jelkneragain, freena14:00
jelknerthere are several of you who could be doing this together14:01
jelknerok, i think that's enough for now14:01
jelknerwhen do we want to meet again?14:01
jelkneri can't meet friday14:01
jelknerbut any other day works14:01
scooperSame here too14:01
freenaFriday is a holiday in Liberia 14:01
dcammueJeff one more thing is not clear to me14:01
scooperfriday is a national holiday in Liberia14:02
jelkneryes, dcammue 14:02
jelknerscooper, let me say one thing about that14:02
jelkneronce you have an office14:02
dcammueSo Mr. ZAWOLO will bring the rent money right 14:02
jelknerjust because it is a holiday doesn't mean you *can't* meet14:02
jelknerin the future, if you have a customer with a deadline14:02
dcammueAnd how about the 150 USD I need for the registration process 14:02
jelknersomeone (or two) may need to work on a holiday14:02
scooperJeff14:03
jelknerSpencer14:03
scooperIn Liberia holiday I meant for break14:03
jelkneri meet on holidays all the time14:03
jelknerLoL14:03
jelknerjust saying...14:03
scooperif people work on holiday they get special compensation14:03
jelknerLOL14:03
jelknerscooper, you're a coop14:04
jelkneryou are the boss14:04
jelknerso you have to get special compensation from yourself ;-)14:04
scooperGreat14:04
scooperJeff14:04
jelknerscooper, just think think about the special compensation i'm getting right now...14:04
scooperbefore you leave I have a quesiton14:04
scooperLOL14:05
jelkneri'm getting the joy of working with my comrades to do something important!14:05
jelknerwhat's your question14:05
jelkner?14:05
scooperIf Mr. Zawolo is bring the rent14:05
scooperwhat being of our Stipend???14:05
scooper*become14:05
jelkneri'm about to do a wire transfer now14:06
scoopercould you please thrown some light onit14:06
scooperon it14:06
scooperThanks14:06
jelknerdcammue, that will answer both your and scooper's question14:06
jelknerSo, MAKE NOTE OF THIS, freena:14:06
scooperIt will help us celebrate the christmas in grand style14:06
freenaAlright 14:06
scooperLast last before you leave14:07
jelknerSJC will wire transfer $2500.00 today14:07
jelknerfreena, pay attention14:07
jelknerhere is what SJC wants in return:14:07
scooperyou have not ask us what is our plan for the place yet14:07
freenaI'm here jelkner 14:07
jelkner1. A report on what *each* member did to earn their stipend, including their goals and tasks for the next two months14:07
scooperAll Daniel should do it through email??14:07
jelkner2. A detailed financial summary (using a NextCloud spreadsheet) of what was done with the extra $50014:08
jelkneri already know dcammue says $150 of it will go to business registration14:08
jelknerthat leaves $350 which could be used for wifi and electricity FOR Jetro work usage14:09
jelknerTo be successful, SJC will need to provide Jetro what it needs to get things done14:09
jelknerbut then Jetro needs to GET THINGS DONE!14:10
jelknerso freena, my dear worker coop sister14:10
jelknercan i count on you to help make that happen?14:10
freenaSure jelkner 14:11
jelknerawesome14:11
jelknerok until saturday then14:11
jelkneremail in between14:11
freenaBut jelkner 14:11
jelkneri'll be talking with Tanaka today, btw14:11
jelkneri'm calling him in 2 hours14:11
jelknerfreena?14:11
dcammueThanks jelkner for the clarity and thanks to SJC for their continued support 14:12
jelknerour pleasure dcammue 14:12
freenaThat will be in one report right?? Or everyone should do their report??14:12
jelkneroh yes, freena 14:12
jelkneri'm asking you to coordinate14:12
jelknernot to do the work14:12
freenaAlright jelkner 14:12
jelknercoops are all about shared responsibility14:12
jelknerbut freena, you may need to bug them ;-)14:13
jelknerin fact, here is an idea14:13
jelkner1. freena creates a spreadsheet in Jetro's Mayfirst spreadsheet14:13
jelkner2. she, mulbah, dcammue, scooper figure out how to create logins for all your members14:14
jelkner3. you ask each member to login and add a row to the shared spreadsheet14:14
jelknerwith their goals and tasks14:14
jelknerthat would be fantastic14:14
jelknersince to pull it off, you would have to learn a lot of the skills we want to learn now14:15
jelknerjust an idea14:15
jelkneranyway, i have to go14:15
jelkneri've got a lot to do, including a wire transfer14:15
freenaSure but can that be done of Saturday jelkner 14:15
jelknerthese things are processes freena 14:16
jelkneri would make sure you did a lot of the investigation *before* saturday14:16
jelkneror else you won't pull it off14:16
freenaThat way everyone will be present and we can do it 14:16
dcammuejelkner, maybe scooper will email you concerning the office business 14:16
freenaI will jelkner 14:16
freenaI'm just saying that for the logins aspect 14:17
dcammueHe has a little information to pass to you about the place 14:17
freenaBut I will do some research and practice before Saturday jelkner 14:17
jelknerperfect freena 14:18
jelkneryou rock!14:18
jelknersee you saturday14:18
freenaYou too jelkner 14:18
dcammueCheck your mail later on14:18
jelknerwill do dcammue 14:18
dcammueSee you too14:18
jelknerACTION signs off...14:18
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freenaSee you all 14:20
freenaACTION signing off14:21
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