IRC log of #jetrowebdev for Monday, 2025-03-31

Vedthomasboimah I cloned the repo and am now successfully able to access it. So far everything looks great01:09
Ved has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)04:01
gabriel_jetro_greeting, jelkner 10:30
gabriel_jetro_greeting, jelkner 10:31
scooperGood morning jelkner and gabriel_jetro_ 10:43
jelknerAren't we supposed to have a meeting in 4 minutes?10:56
jelknerI thought Freena said that.10:56
jelknerSo i am confused10:59
jelkneri thought we had a meeting scheduled for this time10:59
gabriel_jetro_Yeah 11:00
gabriel_jetro_That's why I'm here 11:00
scooper+111:00
scooperfrom the hex conversation11:00
scooperwith freena and you11:00
scooperthere is a meeting schedule between you and freena11:00
jelknerhmmm...11:01
jelknerso where is she?11:01
scoopershe coming11:01
jelknerthere you are11:02
jelknerok, freena, you called this meeting, what are we going to discuss?11:02
freenaGood Morning jelkner 11:03
jelknergood morning11:03
freenaClarity on secretary problem 11:03
jelknergreat11:04
jelknerkeep in mind "secretary problem" is its historical name11:04
jelknerit is now considered a very sexist formulation11:04
freenaGood morning scooper 11:04
jelknerbetter modern name is "Optimal stoppiing"11:04
scooperGood morning freena 11:05
freenaWell noted 11:05
jelknerso, what would you like to know about the optimal stopping algorithm?11:05
freenaI like to know what it's about and how does it function11:06
jelknerdid you look at the links i posted in the chat when i told you about it?11:07
jelknerfreena, it is *very* important as a tech professional you learn to use resources like Wikipedia whenever you hear a new term11:07
jelknerbut i'll be glad to talk about this one11:07
jelkneryou still should continue to look into it later11:08
freenaOkay jelkner 11:08
jelknerto grow your knowledge and grow your power!11:08
jelknerthis is an exciting opportunity for me as a teacher, too ;-)11:08
jelknersince learning new things like this changes you11:08
jelkneryou are not the same person after you understand how this works, since you see the world differently than you did before11:09
jelkneranyway...11:09
jelknerwe have a problem we are facing11:09
jelknerwe are trying to find an office space for Jetro Web development11:09
jelknerthe question is, as scientifically minded people, how should we go about solving the problem?11:10
jelknerlet's think about a few different approaches11:10
jelkner1. grab the first place we find11:10
jelknerthis has at least one advantage, it minimizes the time we spend looking11:10
jelknerbut it has huge disadvantages11:11
jelknersince the probability is that we will get a very bad deal11:11
jelknerwe don't even know what a good deal is, so perhaps at first we will not realize we got a bad deal11:11
jelknerbut soon we will11:11
jelknerwhen we move in and talk to other people in the area11:12
jelknerand find out they got more for less than we did11:12
jelknerok, how about the other extreme approach11:12
jelkner2. We keep looking until we find the "perfect place", no matter how long it takes11:12
jelknerthis seems to have the advantage of giving us the best deal11:13
jelknerbut it has a lot of problems too11:13
jelknerwhat is "the perfect place"?11:13
jelknerhow will we even recognize it when we see it?11:13
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jelknerwe could keep looking forever and not find it!11:13
jelknerso neither of these two extreme approaches are good11:14
jelknerwe need an approach somewhere in the middle11:14
jelknerbut where in the middle?11:14
jelknerthe optimal stopping algorithm says the best place to stop is at 37%11:15
jelknerit's facinating if you learn more about it11:15
jelknerand perhaps later on you will11:15
jelknerbut for now, you just need to get the general idea11:15
freenaThanks jelkner, I will read more on it 11:16
jelknerwe need to LOOK (without any intention of purchasing) for about 37% of the time we plan to spend finding an office11:16
jelknerthat means if we were going to look at as many as 100 apartments11:16
jelknerwe would look at the 1st 37 without any intention of signing a contract for one of them11:17
jelknerwe would be looking just to establish our statistical understanding of what the cost of a good office is in the area we are looking11:17
jelknerwe should assume that the good ones we look at during this stage will be gone by the time we are finished looking11:18
jelknerthat's ok11:18
jelknerit's part of the cost of gathering information11:18
jelkneronce we "know" what the market holds, (after looking for 37% of our time)11:18
jelknerwe are ready to immediately grab the first office we see that is a better deal then what we have seen in the 1st 37%11:19
jelknerloooong story short11:19
jelkneryour job, freena, is to give us information on several more offices11:20
jelknerwe want pictures, and your thoughts on what you like and don't like about them11:20
jelknerklarios is setting up a place in Decidim for you to put that, yes?11:20
freena+111:21
jelknerok, well freena, that is what you have been hired to do11:21
jelkneryou will only earn your May income by doing it11:21
scooperBase on your message this gone Saturday afternoon in the hexchat I understand that you are spending all day home, which mean you will have enough time to chat if yes? could you please stay for at least five minutes you and freena?11:21
jelknerthat's how you will be held accoutable11:21
jelknerscooper, no11:22
jelkneri have to plan!!!11:22
jelkneryou keep forgetting that i have a job11:22
jelkneri've got time to meet now11:22
jelknerthen back to work for me11:22
jelknerscooper, i read your email11:22
jelknerwe can talk briefly about that in this meeting11:22
jelknerfreena, let's finish with your task11:22
freenaOkay11:23
freenaI'm here scooper 11:23
jelknerfreena, it is really important to understand what is going on in NOVA Web, since this relates to scooper's concern too11:23
jelknerLike i've been saying for about a year now11:23
jelknerthis is the 4th and final "reboot" i can help with for NOVA Web Dev11:24
jelknerwe either make it work as a business, or i retire, move to mexico or somewhere, and leave the future to younger folks like you and stop trying to worry about it11:24
jelknerso, at this point NOVA Web Development has only two legal worker / owners11:25
jelknerKei Larios and Jeff Elkner11:25
jelknerwe have been making changes to our operating agreement on May 1st each year11:25
jelknerour operating agreement says that at least 50% of our member will be women11:25
jelknerand we want to bring Tony on as a worker ower11:26
jelknerit doesn't make sense for me to be a worker owner11:26
jelknersince i do not earn revenue from the business11:26
jelkneri'm really an advisor and a customer11:26
jelknerso our plan is to have me drop off and Tony to come on this May 1st11:27
jelknerJust like with Jetro, we need NOVA to begin working like a viable business11:27
jelknerso scooper, if you want to get your work evaluated11:27
jelknerit is probably going to be Kei you need to talk to11:28
jelknerBlu is great11:28
jelknerbut she is an intern11:28
jelknernot an owner11:28
jelknerso if i were you, scooper 11:28
scooperI m glad we are moving on a new path now with freena and thomas being the first to secured a billable job which is fine. My concern here? if other can also bill for a work and have a done in the shortest possible time is there any deduction will be make from their money to help the corporate with other thing it might need11:29
jelkneri would be in the #novawebdev irc channel this thursday11:29
jelknergreat question scooper 11:29
jelknerboth Jetro and NOVA have *a lot* to learn!11:29
jelknerand managing a budget is a huge part of that11:30
jelkneryou've been hearing me say to svaye and dcammue that the business people will be SO IMPORTANT!11:30
scoopersure11:30
jelknerand they same skills they need to guide Jetro's finances11:30
scooperso many time11:30
jelknerthey can use to get paid by SECOSOL, SJC, etc.11:31
jelknerso it has a win-win potential for Jetro that can not be over stated11:31
jelknernow let's see if they can do it11:31
gabriel_jetro_jelkner: 11:31
jelknerit will be up to them, in consultation with you, to decide how to manage your budget11:32
jelknergabriel_jetro_, 11:32
jelkneranyway freena 11:32
jelknerdo you feel you get it about the office search?11:33
jelknerlet me be concrete11:33
gabriel_jetro_Since you make mentioned about work and get paid to be honest I'm kinda worry feel like ain't getting more guide to earn your trust and 11:33
jelkneryou are being paid a salary this month11:33
gabriel_jetro_Start work while learning 11:33
jelknergabriel_jetro_, i'm not sure what you mean?11:33
jelkneryou heard me say "Santa Claus" was dead :-(11:34
gabriel_jetro_+111:34
jelknerthat just means we face a tougher economic situation than i had hoped11:34
jelkneri'm out of funds11:34
jelkneri can't keep sending more and more transfers out of my own earnings11:35
gabriel_jetro_We need to stand up I know that, but we'll need your help 11:35
jelknerwe need to find other sources11:35
freenaIt's clear now jelkner 11:35
scooperjelkner, 11:35
jelknergabriel_jetro_, part of the help you all need to give each other now is to realize that some of you will be able to move ahead first11:35
scoopercan I get thing clear here before you leave??11:35
jelknerJetro needs full time professionals11:36
scoopercan I get something clear here before you leave??11:36
jelkneri can afford 211:36
jelknerit really should have been a collective decision11:36
jelknerbut instead, i made it11:36
jelknerthat wasn't the best11:36
jelknerbut i felt i had too11:36
jelknerto11:36
jelknersince thomas and freena had been the most reliable, and taken the most initiative in my estimate11:37
scooperI think your selection was perfect to admit11:37
jelknerit was the best i could do under the circumstances, scooper 11:37
jelknerbut it is not without problems11:37
jelknerit should have been a *JETRO* decision11:38
jelknernot a jelkner one11:38
jelknerbut Jetro is not fully ready yet to make decisions like that11:38
jelkneryou need to get ready11:38
scooperbut some people might not feel satisfy11:38
scooperbut that is life. It should encourage us to do more11:38
jelkneranyway, we're going to go with it for now11:38
jelknerand learn from our experience11:38
jelknerso freena, you have to take the lead on finding the office11:39
jelknerjetro needs an office11:39
scooperFreena and gabriel_jetro_ 11:39
jelknerand getting us rooted in the community where we want to have an impact11:39
jelkner(building a school, etc)11:39
scooperwhen jelkner leave can you two please stay for five minutes please....11:39
jelknerACTION waits for freena and gabriel_jetro_ to answer scooper 11:40
gabriel_jetro_+111:40
freena+1 scooper 11:40
jelknerexcellent11:40
jelknerso let me finish11:40
jelknerfreena, you should plan a few trips to look at offices over the next few weeks11:41
jelknerto take pictures11:41
jelknerand get to know the area11:41
jelknerwe will be helping y'all figure it out11:41
jelknerbut you will be our eyes and ears11:41
freena+1 jelkner 11:41
jelkneryou will be the one who will get to know the new area11:41
jelknerexcellent11:41
jelknerand remember freena 11:42
jelknertransportation getting their and back is a business expense11:42
jelkneryou need to document it and use it as an opportunity to being helping Jetro learn to manage its books11:42
jelknerscooper, you are going to be there on thursday, yes?11:42
scooper+111:43
freenaWell noted jelkner 11:43
jelkneri ask Kei to come at 5 pm UTC, which is before everyone else shows11:43
jelknerif she can make it by then11:43
jelknerthat would be a great time for the 3 of us to chat about web work you have done for SECOSOL, SJC, or NOVA Web11:44
jelknerlet's see if we can make that happen11:44
jelknerok, i have *A LOT* to do today!11:44
jelkneri need to call Virginia about taxes11:44
jelknersince they are open today and i am off11:45
jelknerand i need to plan lessons for this week11:45
jelknerso it was great meeting with you11:45
jelknerlet's talk again on thursday11:45
gabriel_jetro_Okay jelkner 11:45
gabriel_jetro_Have a nice day 😊11:45
jelkneryou too!11:45
jelknerACTION signs off11:45
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scooperHello Freena and gabriel_jetro_ 11:46
freenaHi scooper 11:46
scooperand congratulation once again to Freena and Thomas 11:46
gabriel_jetro_Yeah scooper I'm good and you 11:46
freenaThanks scooper 11:47
scooperThere are two things I will like to understand here freena11:47
freenaOkay 11:47
scoopermaybe you guys had already had meeting on it11:47
scooperFirst concern: the is no free stipend those it take effective this April month 11:48
scooper*Doe it  take effect this April month???11:49
scooperfreena11:49
scooper*Does11:49
scooperFreena are you there???11:49
freenaI'm here scooper 11:50
scooperI m asking you???11:50
scooperan question11:50
freenaNo scooper 11:50
freenaIt starts by May 11:50
freenaJeff have already make a deposit to Jetro Web Account for April stipend 11:51
scooperOh ok I was a bit worry about those who are the last in the susu that why I m asking???11:51
scoopergot you11:51
scooperLast question:11:51
scooperSince we are transitioning to billable work, are there any tariff to be deducted from those are earning from billable to be set aside for the corp??11:53
scooper*from those who are earning from billable work to be set aside for the corp??11:53
scooperACTION done with the questioning11:54
freenascooper: 11:55
scooper+111:55
freena-1 11:55
freenaI think Jelkner always send extra fees for the corp 11:56
freenaBut 11:56
freenaThe money that will be deducted from people that don't turned up at the office will be for the corp used I think 11:56
gabriel_jetro_freena: and scooper 11:57
scooperIt's fine with me, and I hope it remain let this to the very end....11:57
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scooperWhat if scooper or gabriel_jetro_ where able to bill for a work that cost 2000 each, that mean scooper and gabriel_jetro_ will walk away with their money right???11:58
scooperWithout any deduction11:59
scooper+1 gabriel_jetro_ 11:59
freenaI don't think so but jelkner is the best person to answer that 11:59
scooperACTION done11:59
scooperI done think jeff will have such power to do so12:00
scooperI m about to leave gabriel_jetro_ do you have anything to say???12:01
gabriel_jetro_So how will other be able to fund internet and transportation for work at the office 12:01
freenaAre you talking about May gabriel_jetro_ 12:02
gabriel_jetro_Yeah 12:02
scooperFrom my perspective it's self initiative12:02
scooper gabriel_jetro_ 12:02
freenaIt is our prayer and hope that everyone will do their work and  receive their stipend in May 12:03
gabriel_jetro_Okay but for me I'll only be able to go with one until I'm able to get work done 12:03
freenaBut if not 12:03
freenaThomas and I discussed in the meeting on Saturday to take the initiative to share with our teammates if the opposite happened 12:04
scooperOk freena and gabriel_jetro_ I m about to leave now12:05
gabriel_jetro_Okay 12:05
freenaHave a great day scooper 12:05
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freenaLater gabriel_jetro_ 12:06
gabriel_jetro_Okay freena have a nice day. 12:19
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gabriel_jetro_Greetings everyone 18:16
jelknerhey shmohamud, great to see you here!18:35
klarios_hello all!18:39
jelknerhi klarios_ 18:40
jelknerdid you see my email today about SECOSOL bookkeeping?18:41
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klarioshi jelkner sorry I disconnected18:45
jelknerhello klarios 18:45
jelknerright on time18:45
jelknerlet's chat before your meeting18:45
klariosI did see your email18:45
jelknerdid you see my email about SECOSOL?18:45
klariosyep I did 18:46
jelknergreat18:46
klariostoday me and freena will talk about the project management of our priorities18:47
jelknerwe definitely need to move ahead with intention and direction18:47
jelknerexcellent!18:47
klariosexactly. Im glad we talked about our priorities during saturday18:47
jelknerthat's the main thing i wanted to put on your radar before you meet with her18:47
klariosit was a a lot of things but we need to narrow it down to the most important and efficient18:47
klariosthat was the purpose of our meeting today jelkner 18:48
jelknergreat18:48
jelknerthat's all i had to say18:48
klariosplus using decidim to track all our progress18:48
jelknerexcellent!18:48
jelknerklarios, can you be in my classroom by 1 pm on thursday?18:48
klariosI appreaciate it jelkner, youve given great direction. Its up to us to work with it now18:49
klariossure18:49
klariosof course 18:49
klariosIts my set routine now18:49
jelkneri told scooper this morning i would reach out to you to see if we could meet with him then18:49
klariossure. What's the purpose of the meeting?18:50
jelkneras great as the interns are, klarios, we need to move now to having the worker / owners be in charge of core business activity18:50
klariostrue we need stability in our workforce18:50
jelknereveryone at jetro wants to know how they can earn income now that santa claus is dead18:50
jelknerscooper has been trying to work with blu18:50
jelknerbut he isn't getting the kind of responses he is hoping for18:51
jelknerwe need to maintain an effective response time18:51
jelknerso folks can navigate the system effectively and get results18:51
jelknerhe email me18:52
klariosalright. its also something we need to figure out today18:52
jelknerbut i am the CUSTOMER18:52
jelkneri don't want to get involved with pull requests, code review, etc.18:52
jelkneri want to approve the final product and pay the invoice18:52
jelknerthat's my role18:52
klariosas a costumer you will only recieve costumer reports.18:52
jelknerexactly18:52
jelknerthat's what i want18:53
klariosexactly what I want as well18:53
jelknerit is crucial for the success of both coops18:53
jelknerexcellent18:53
jelknerok, i'm going to sign off now18:53
jelknergreat checking in with you!18:53
jelknerhave fun and be productive! ;-)18:53
klariosof course jelkner. I feel now more than ever we need organization and accountability18:53
jelknerACTION signs off for the day18:53
klariosboth coops can do that through decidim 18:54
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klariosthank you jelkner! check out the logs when you can 18:54
klarioshi gabriel_jetro_ !18:56
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gabriel_jetro_Hi klarios 18:57
klarioshi how are you!18:58
gabriel_jetro_I'm just fine and you 18:58
klariosI'm well but worried the other jetro members wont show18:59
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klariosyou had a meeting with jelkner today in the morning right gabriel_jetro_ ?18:59
gabriel_jetro_They'll, thomasboimah is here 18:59
klariosHey thomasboimah!19:00
thomasboimahHI klarios 19:00
gabriel_jetro_Not really but I was in the meeting. 19:00
klariossorry I have a new IRC client and its not showing all the users19:00
klariosgabriel_jetro_: I see19:01
gabriel_jetro_Ok19:01
klarioslets wait for johan to show19:01
gabriel_jetro_Okay 19:01
klarioshey johan_f !19:02
johan_fhello klarios19:02
klarioswe're missing freena19:02
gabriel_jetro_I think she'll be here 19:03
klariosalright lets wait 5 more mins19:03
gabriel_jetro_My phone spoil so I'm unable to contact her locally 19:03
klariosgabriel_jetro_: that's alright. she's normally on time so something must be happening19:04
klariosalright ill tell her to just check logs19:05
johan_f+119:06
klarios!add making a project management system 19:06
Websterss_Agenda item added to meeting 'Businessplan': making a project management system  (added by klarios)19:06
klarios!add priority projects19:06
Websterss_Agenda item added to meeting 'Businessplan': priority projects (added by klarios)19:06
johan_fJust so everyone knows I won't be at the Wednesday meeting19:06
klarios!add business team tracking19:06
Websterss_Agenda item added to meeting 'Businessplan': business team tracking (added by klarios)19:06
klariosjohan_f: thanks for letting me know johan_f 19:06
klariosill let everyone know as well19:07
johan_fI'll send an email to freena and jkollie19:07
klariosthank you johan_f 19:07
klarios!agenda19:07
Websterss_Agenda for meeting 'Businessplan':19:07
Websterss_AOB (Any Other Business) (added by: fkoikoi)19:07
Websterss_making a project management system  (added by: klarios)19:07
Websterss_priority projects (added by: klarios)19:07
Websterss_business team tracking (added by: klarios)19:07
klariosbased on the items that we talked about on friday 19:07
klariosignore the items from saturday19:07
johan_fokay19:08
klariosme and jelkner think its imperative that we have a system for project management both from developers and business managers19:08
johan_f+119:08
klariosregarding the projects of priority: 1. Book keeping (Jkollie, & dcammue)19:09
gabriel_jetro_+119:09
klarios2. thomasboimah and anthony are working on decidim infrastructure19:09
klarios3. gabriel_jetro_ , mulbah, thomasboimah will work on secosol19:10
klariosthe secosol website 19:10
klariosand blog integration19:10
klariosme and freena will work on tax law and finding office spaces19:11
klariosfor all of these projects we want to find a way to track them and give reports to our costumers19:11
klariosin decidim, its easy to add updates on projects. Using the accountability module it is easy to make reports19:12
johan_f+119:12
klariosgit commits and git histories are the use to make sure devs are doing what theyre supposed to 19:12
klariosone we*19:12
johan_fso we want to start adding these projects in decidim?19:13
klariosyes we should add these projects on decidim 19:13
johan_funderstood19:14
klariosand it will be up to thomasboimah, gabriel_jetro_ and all of jetro to use decidim for creating reports19:14
klariosfor both costumers and the cooperatives19:14
klariosgabriel_jetro_: thomasboimah what do you guys think?19:14
thomasboimahThat will be great!19:15
gabriel_jetro_+119:15
klariosthen that way, every thursday we can all see what jetro has been up to and you can invoice jeff for it19:15
johan_fdo you all have accounts in decidim?19:16
klariosregarding more in detail of project management. Business tracker is a great tool!19:16
klariosi think they all do now johan_f 19:16
johan_falso this should help to use the module: https://decidim.novawebdevelopment.org/assemblies/novaweborg/f/18/posts/1719:16
klariosI've just made an account for mulbah and gabriel_jetro_ has his own19:16
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johan_fI'll make sure their admin in the process then19:16
klariosgreat! thank you johan_f 19:17
klarioswe will be using the jetro assembly19:17
johan_f*assembly19:17
klariosthomasboimah: gabriel_jetro_ I will put the gitlab to the secosol website on decidim soon19:17
gabriel_jetro_Okay 19:17
klariosgabriel_jetro_: I know you are learning django. So I can put some resources there as well19:18
gabriel_jetro_Thanks that'll be great, I was just about to ask19:18
klariosof course! everything we do will be documented on decidim 19:18
gabriel_jetro_You said you were gonna go with me learning Django, how would that be? 19:19
klariosof course gabriel_jetro_ 19:19
klarioswe will use decidim and the help of django girls 19:20
klariosbut I cannot coordinate that until I meet with them on thursday19:20
gabriel_jetro_Okay, I'll be on the lookout 19:20
klariosso I will have news for how we will do that this saturday19:20
gabriel_jetro_Can't wait to hear from you soon 🤗19:20
klariosgreat! gabriel_jetro_ regarding the book keeping. I will also make a project for the book keeping19:21
klarioshttps://share.mayfirst.org/apps/files/files/38704704?dir=/Book%20Keeping%20Learning%20Center19:21
klariosthis is the folder19:21
gabriel_jetro_Bookkeeping are for shallon and dcammie19:21
klariosoops sorry i though shallon was here19:22
klariosI will ask them to read logs19:22
klariosI need them to put their contents here before thursday so that we can coordinate items for next week19:22
klarios!agenda19:22
Websterss_Agenda for meeting 'Businessplan':19:22
Websterss_AOB (Any Other Business) (added by: fkoikoi)19:22
gabriel_jetro_Okay, today's shallon 18th birthday so she's having fun 19:22
Websterss_making a project management system  (added by: klarios)19:22
Websterss_priority projects (added by: klarios)19:23
Websterss_business team tracking (added by: klarios)19:23
klariossince the business team isnt here. I will call them on telegram19:23
johan_fgabriel_jetro_ now has assembly admin for jetroweb assembly19:23
gabriel_jetro_Everyone today's shallon 18th birthday I repeat 19:24
gabriel_jetro_So she's having fun19:25
klariosYes!19:25
klariosI wished her a happy bday19:25
johan_fI wish her a happy birthday19:25
klariosno worries she will look at the logs tomorrow19:25
klariosthis is her day19:26
klariosalright19:27
klarioswe've got nothing more for today19:27
johan_fby next meeting jelkner, anthony_p and I should have info about VOCA19:27
klariosyes19:27
klarioswe will be there19:27
klarioswhat time is the meeting again johan_f ?19:27
johan_fits right after my his class. I might be wrong but its 1:00 pm19:27
johan_fother than that I think there is nothing else19:28
klariosgreat!19:28
klariosokay that's it for today19:28
klariosthank you for meeting all19:28
johan_fhave a great day everybody!19:28
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klariosjohan_f: I'll make the project for secosol on decidim 19:28
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gabriel_jetro_Bye everyone 19:29
klariosbyeee19:29
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klarioshttps://share.mayfirst.org/s/kRzaS68Tmx9GpZP22:09
klariosthis is the spanish learning center nextcloud22:09
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