IRC log of #jetrowebdev for Saturday, 2025-05-03

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klariosHi all! how are you all doing?14:55
svayeGood morning klarios, I am good How are you doing 14:57
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klariossorry i disconnected for a bit14:59
klariosjelkner will be a couple of minutes late14:59
klariosbut he told me to hold it down. As you may all know 2 days ago was may first and we signed the operating agreement for the 2025 year where me and tony are worker owners 15:01
anthony_phello all15:01
klariosNow our conversations should be about our business plan and operational relationships between jetro web and Nova web15:01
klarioshi tony!15:02
svayeHi anthony_p 15:02
klariosare we waiting on fkoikoi?15:02
klariosif not we can continue 15:03
klariosSo I propose that we start having conversations about our currrent clients, how we will do business, how we will generate reports, how we will invoice and how much we would invoice for 15:05
anthony_pis anyone taking notes on this?15:05
klariosSince we have a workflow established by the results in decidim it will be easier to discuss the business workflow 15:05
klariosno tony, someone should take notes or should we refer this log somewhere 15:07
klarios?15:07
fkoikoiGood Morning klarios15:08
anthony_pgood morning15:08
klariosanother thing to propose would be having dedicated “business meetings” between jetro and Nova web 15:08
anthony_pone of our potential bookkeepers for note taking?15:09
klarioshi fkoikoi! check out the log to those arriving late15:09
klariossure svaye, would you want to take notes on this meeting?15:09
fkoikoiokay15:10
klariosor Fkoikoi you could do note-taking as well15:10
mulbahHello everyone15:11
anthony_phello15:12
klariosmoving on to the conversation, one of the ways that I have been taught to do business plans is through “fragmentation” or breaking up into functional groups and seeing “benefits” and “risks” associated with that group and then generating a strategy to mitigate risks. For example: Developers could have the risk of not responding to outages as fast enough, so what can we do to prevent or mitigate that damage 15:13
mulbahHi Jeff15:14
klariosand then on the business side a risk is not understanding the perspectives of developers in terms of workflow and pay, so how can we mitigate that as well15:14
klarioshi jelkner! check out the logs please 15:14
jelknerwhich jetro or nova?15:15
klariosjetro15:15
jelknerlol, is anyone taking notes, anthony_p, why yes, Websterss_ is!15:16
anthony_pthat makes sense, but what are those groupings we're going to actually look at klarios?15:16
klariosin terms of jetro and nova’s survival we need to figure out our strengths and weaknesses and plan on them so that we can best serve our costumers 15:16
anthony_phttps://drive.proton.me/urls/ZZBE2GN86G#njDx4P0q2tkH15:16
anthony_puse that link to take notes for now15:16
anthony_pwe can upload the document to the decidim after15:17
anthony_pwe need a solution for collaborative notetaking that's opensource, something that needs to be put on the agenda15:17
jelkneranthony_p, we have a bot15:17
jelknerthe irc logs are automatic15:17
anthony_pthere are options like etherpad that can be added to the decidim, but we don't have the installed right now15:17
klariossince we are such a small group and jetro is so interconnected with each other we can start by doing a SWOT analysis 15:17
anthony_pi know that jelkner, and that's fine and good, but note taking during meetings help organize the discussion as well, and are quicker to reference during the discussion15:18
anthony_pthe logs are a great reference, but they do not flow in the discussion15:19
jelknerexcept now we are having a meta discussion instead of a discussion15:19
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jelkneri'm really concerned we keep our "eyes on the prize"15:19
klariossorry disconnected 15:19
jelknerto me, that means finding a way in the near term (a year or two?)15:20
jelknerfor klarios and the jetro members to live off this co-op15:20
jelknerthat means focusing on:15:20
jelkner1. capacity building15:20
anthony_pokay, well, let's ask klarios as our business expert, are  the logs going to be sufficient for managing and tracking a business discussion?15:20
fkoikoiso klarios, are you suggesting that someone should starts taking notes of meeting minutes and not depending on Websters log??15:21
jelkner2. finding customers15:21
klariosbut like I was saying since jetro web is smaller and more interconnected group we can start by doing a SWOT (Strenghts, weaknesses, opportunities, threats) of ourselves and then of our infrastructure as a whole15:21
klariosthat way we have an understanding of how capable we are of handling ourselves and our own infrastructure 15:21
svayeI am sorry guys I can't stay for the meeting I have lab class but I will read the log15:21
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klariosbecause if we can’t handle infrastructure we can’t handle web development and business management 15:22
anthony_pi agree with that15:22
klariosI think irc isn’t enough 15:22
klariosI think that we as “stewards” should also be held accountable for holding others accountable 15:22
jelkneri'll push back on that klarios 15:23
klariosthat way future stewards can see what truly goes with being a manager 15:23
jelknerthe SchoolTool project successfully used this very infrastructure for 10 year15:23
jelkneryears15:23
jelknertechies love to hack on tech15:23
jelknerwhen what we have are human problems, not technical ones15:23
jelknerbut i'll go with whatever y'all decided if it is open source15:24
jelknerthat said15:24
jelknerif we spend all our time talking about what tech we are going to use15:24
jelkneri think we will not get where we want to go15:24
jelkneri'll be happy when you prove me wrong though15:24
jelknerjust saying...15:25
jelknerACTION done15:25
anthony_pwell, proton docs and all of proton is open source, and i just put it in there for now. because i want collaborative document development to be done through an open source tool we would have on our own decidim like etherpad15:25
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jelknermay first uses etherpad, anthony_p, so i'm familiar with it15:26
klariosI agree jelkner and I think we first need to understand in what step of capacity are we and what do we need of more to understand our own infrastructure like decidim and libre organize15:26
jelknerbut i will say, the problem for me is always "where did we put that thing?"15:26
jelkneragain, a human problem15:26
klariosexactly!15:26
jelknerwhat we have not is dead simple15:26
anthony_pand when the meeting is over, we can upload that document to the decidim15:26
jelknergo for it!15:27
klariosthat’s what this business plan will take into account15:27
jelknerand please don't be mad at me when i ask you where it is15:27
jelkneri promise never to ask where the irclogs are ;-)15:27
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jelkneranthony_p, i know you have to go soon, yes15:28
anthony_pno, i thought this was at 315:28
jelknerit is 3 UTC, anthony_p15:28
anthony_pyes15:28
klariossorry my connection keeps dropping 15:28
jelknerthomasboimah, anthony_p, mulbah, i was hoping we could talk about our capacity building15:29
jelknerwe have a major breakthrough this week15:29
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jelknerjetro submitted their 1st invoice15:29
jelknerthat was HUGE15:29
jelknersince we will not be for real until that can happen over and over as a matter of course15:30
jelknerthat's what we need to talk about15:30
jelknerwhat's up with your connection klarios?15:30
klariossorry I kept dropping I was on my phone 15:31
klariosim on computer now15:31
jelknerthomasboimah, mulbah how are you coming on the .org to .coop migration15:31
jelkner?15:31
thomasboimahWe are on it. it will be done before Tuesday15:31
mulbahI wanted to ask a question15:31
jelknerplease15:31
jelknerjust ask15:31
mulbahJust to clarify — are we only setting up forwarding from the .org addresses to the .coop ones, or do you also want to transfer all existing emails from the .org accounts over to the .coop accounts?15:31
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jelknerthomasboimah, are you here?15:32
thomasboimahYeah15:32
jelknerok, mulbah dropped15:32
jelknernever mind15:32
mulbahNo I'm here15:32
jelknerok, i'm the customer, so let me clarify15:32
anthony_pi believe that what want is to transfer everything to .coop, then ad forwarding from .org so customers can use the old addresses until they get updated info?15:33
mulbahokay15:33
jelkner1. We (NOVA Web Development) have been running our own mail server for several years15:33
jelknerwe are hosting it, running IREDMail15:33
klariosthomasboimah: was asking me for namecheap info so I think he is sorting it out15:33
klariosis he not here?15:33
jelknerit hosts our .org email15:33
thomasboimahI'm here klarios 15:33
jelknerthomasboimah, do you know all this?15:34
jelkneri don't need to explain to mulbah if you can15:34
jelknerbut i will if you don't15:34
thomasboimahPlease clarify things jelkner 15:34
jelknerok, i'll continue15:34
jelknerwe want to move from .org to .coop15:34
jelkneras a worker coop it makes sense from a marketing point of view15:35
jelknerso, we now have our .coop email working (thanks to Jetro! ;-) on May First15:35
jelknerso, our question is - what to do with our .org?15:35
jelknerwe can't just shut it down15:35
jelknerwe have been doing business for 13 years15:36
jelknerso lots of people have our .org email addresses15:36
jelknerthose still need to work15:36
jelknerbut we *DO NOT* want to run our own email server anymore!15:36
jelknerso we want to set up the .org emails so that:15:37
jelkner1. They still work (they reach us)15:37
jelkner2. They don't require our own email server15:37
jelknerthat's what we want15:37
anthony_pthere's a relatively straightforward solution to this15:37
jelknergreat, what is it?15:37
thomasboimahWith this being said. Then I think we are on track. mulbah, gabriel and I will make sure to be done with this before Tuesday.15:37
anthony_pwe set up mayfirst to handle the .org as well as the .coop15:38
jelknerYes!15:38
jelknerthat would be awesome15:38
jelknerso that's what we want15:38
anthony_pjust have to do that, and have all mail routed through may first, then shut down our server15:38
klariosgreat! thomasboimah were you able to log into bitwarden?15:38
jelknerbeautiful15:38
jelknerlet's do it15:38
thomasboimahyes klarios Thanks again15:39
anthony_pso the same process we did for the .coop mail, but we're replacing rather than creating15:39
jelkneranthony_p, my biggest concern is that we develop the capacity to do just this kind of thing15:39
klariosgreat! are you able to see the namecheap log in info?15:39
jelknerwe've been talking about it for several months15:39
jelknerthat's too long15:39
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jelkneri think that the key to our capacity building is our collaboration with jetro15:39
thomasboimahSure klarios 15:39
jelknerthey are developing the skills they need15:40
jelknerand rates we can afford15:40
anthony_pso, mulbah did the .coop right? have him work with someone that needs to learn the mayfirst system and guide them through setting up the .org stuff15:40
jelkner+115:40
anthony_pi think luis did stuff with that too?15:40
klarios+1 the great thing is that theyre working collaboratively15:40
jelknerok, we have a plan?15:41
mulbahalright15:41
klarioswe have two due items for next week jelkner 15:41
anthony_pminimally, yes15:41
anthony_pbut we should discuss how this acually expands what Jetro can offer as a service15:41
klarios1. Figure out the time and date for our business meetings with jetro (if we dont do it thursday)15:41
klarios2. Do a Swot Analysis and teaching ourselves how to do tht15:42
klariosthat*15:42
jelknerklarios, one more thing we need to add15:42
klarios+1 yes anthony_p 15:42
jelknerwebsite work (VASEN, MLC, etc)15:42
klariosyes! website work!15:42
anthony_pthis kind of knowledge and expertise can be used to offer consultation services to smaller coops and organizations that want their own mail servers run by a third party15:42
klariosthat's going to be the thing that I take care of but I need to know that you guys can do it so that I tell our costumers to not worry!15:43
anthony_pstrengthening the movement and supporting our Jetro allies financially as well15:43
jelkneradditionally, anthony_p, we can't do business without skilled sys admins15:43
jelknersimple as that15:43
jelknerwe're a small coop, we need to do it all15:43
jelknerso having jetro know how to manage infrastructure will be a constant way for them to earn revenue15:44
klarios+1 yep exactly what I wanted to get out of today15:44
anthony_pso when should the business meetings take place? what are the best times of availability for all involved15:44
jelknerwe get a new web customer who needs a new website - who helps set up the server and install the tech stack?15:44
jelknerJetro does!15:44
jelknerwe have lots of opportunity to practice with this15:45
klariosyep we've got to consider the small things like getting costumers set up with their own linode and own nameheap15:45
klarios*namecheap15:45
jelknercosmetology and culinary at ACC want their reservation systems deployed soon15:45
klariosjelkner: I am looking to you for guidance on new business meeting times15:45
jelknerby end of school year15:45
jelknerwell, i apologized for my poor estimating this morning already15:46
jelknersaturday mornings are usually good15:46
klariosif we can do thursday because it interferes with all the other things we do and if we consider time difference and other variables15:46
jelknerbut once a month i go to reston to meet folks for breakfast15:47
klariossaturday mornings work for me as well15:47
jelknerhow about this15:47
anthony_psaturday morning would be fine I think15:47
jelknercan we meet twice monthly (1st and 3rd saturdays)?15:47
jelknerat 13:30 or 14:00 UTC?15:48
fkoikoi+115:48
anthony_p+115:48
thomasboimah+115:48
klarios+115:48
mulbah+115:48
jelknersweet15:48
anthony_pwe should put a series of these meetings into the decidim15:48
jelknerwhich one? 13:30 or 14:00 ?15:48
klarioscan we let svaye, dcammue, gabriel know as well thomasboimah fkoikoi 15:48
jelkner+1 on the Decidim15:48
jelkner!15:48
anthony_pso we can put in agendas15:48
thomasboimahSure klarios 15:49
thomasboimahI will do15:49
jelknerone of our main discussion topics will be our Decidim15:49
klariosthank you thomasboimah !15:49
fkoikoisure jelkner15:49
jelknerwhich time do y'all prefer?15:49
klarios14:00 15:49
klariosfor me15:49
jelknerothers?15:49
jelknerjetro folks?15:49
thomasboimah14:0015:50
jelkneranthony_p?15:50
mulbahanytime good for me15:50
jelkneri'm hearing no one who doesn't like 14:0015:50
jelkneris that right?15:50
anthony_p+115:51
klarios+115:51
jelknerGreat, let's do agree that we will meet the 1st and 3rd saturdays of each month at 14:00 UTC15:51
jelknernow, websites15:51
mulbahNice15:52
jelknerwe need to figure out what skills we have15:52
mulbahsure15:52
jelknerin my estimate, we have a serious weakness (a show stopper, actually)15:52
jelknerwe don't have a designer15:52
klariosyep that's where the swot analysis comes in jelkner 15:52
jelkneryup, klarios, i'm doing that15:52
klarios+1 good15:53
jelkneri'm not saying we are super strong on the backend15:53
jelknerbut we are passable15:53
jelkneron the front end, we aren't15:53
jelknerso we need to figure that out15:53
anthony_pagreed15:53
jelknerlet's look at what we do have15:54
thomasboimahWe get jkollie_ that have been learning design for sometime now i thing it is about this we test her skill jelkner 15:54
jelknerjames o'connor and sahnun can both do professional level front end work15:54
thomasboimah*king15:55
thomasboimah*think15:55
thomasboimah*time15:55
jelknerthomasboimah, yes, that is a great goal15:55
jelknerit will take at least a few years!15:55
jelknerjust to manage your expectations15:55
jelknerso, thomasboimah, we need a plan to get us from here to there15:55
jelknerjkollie_ should begin studying15:56
jelknerand she should watch the projects we do, and pay attention to what the front end devs do15:56
jelknerwhen she thinks she is ready15:56
jelknershe can offer to help them15:56
jelknerwhen they say "yes, she really contributed to that project", she will have arrived!15:57
thomasboimahOkay15:57
jkollie_jelkner15:57
jelkneryes, jkollie_ 15:57
jelkneri'm hoping we can continue to get help from natalia, btw15:57
jelknershe does beautiful work15:58
jkollie_will you be able to send me links to the projects you people do15:58
jelknerbut she is available sometimes, and other times not15:58
jelknerdefinitely, jkollie_ 15:58
jelknereverything we do is going to be discussed right here15:58
jkollie_that will be good15:58
jelknerso you're in the right place! ;-)15:58
jkollie_thanks15:59
jelknerso klarios, we need to handle two clients in the immediate term15:59
klarios+1 yep you can always count on me to show you as well 15:59
jelknerVASEN and Maryland Legislative Latino Caucus15:59
klariosThe industrial commons, Vasen, and MD Latino Caucus15:59
jelknerah, 3 clients16:00
jelkneri think we also need to keep "practicing" with our own websites16:00
jelkneri can afford to hire jetro to work on those16:00
klariosim not sure about TIC yet but they are definitely willing to put in the word for us16:00
klariosyep 16:00
jelknerso that will be a great way to know when they are ready16:00
klariossecosol is a great example!16:00
jelknerSECOSOL, SJC, NOVA Web, and Jetro Web16:01
klariosI am still waiting on thomasboimah gabriel_jetro mulbah to help me with that blog integration16:01
jelknerbtw. Jetro, i have a web task for you now16:01
klariosand the members16:01
jelknerwanna hear it?16:01
thomasboimahGo for it jelkner 16:01
mulbahYes16:01
jelknerthis is for your own website16:01
jelknerhere's what i want:16:02
gabriel_jetroSure16:02
jelkner1. As a viewer of the Jetro Web development site, i want to see a page describing the mentors who helped the coop get started16:02
jelkner2. this web page should have 3 people on it: Isaac Zawolo, Jeff Elkner, and Spencer Cooper16:03
jelkneri also want to see jeff disappear from everywhere else on the site16:03
jelknerhe should only be on this page along with isaac and spencer16:03
jelkneron the front page, only the 7 worker-owners should be featured16:04
jelknerACTION dont16:04
jelknerACTION done16:04
jelknerlol16:04
jelkneryou can invoice me for the time, but it shouldn't take you too long ;-)16:04
jelknerthat is my "user story"16:05
jelknerquestions?16:05
jelkneror is it clear what i'm requesting?16:05
klariosnope i think that's good. Thank you cosutmer jelkner !16:05
thomasboimahWell noted. jelkner 16:05
gabriel_jetroSure16:05
jelknercool, as soon as you get that done16:06
klariosI think that's all on my part16:06
jelknerlet's talk about your next assignment16:06
mulbahWe will get on that when we finish with the mail work16:06
klariosI do want to say that I would like to set up a time for the book keeping team and I to meet16:06
jelknergreat, we have been here over an hour16:06
jelknerthat's long enough16:06
klariosdcammue and svaye arent here but I will let them know16:06
klariosthank you all for coming! Great meeting today16:06
jelknerno klarios 16:06
jelknersetting a next meeting time is important16:07
jelknerfinish that16:07
klariosthats right16:07
jelkneralso, klarios, can you chair the next meeting?16:07
jelkneri'll be at Pycon16:07
jelknerit is on 5/1716:07
klarioswe will be meeting the 17th at 10 am my time 14:00 utc16:07
jelknerone more quick request16:07
klariosI will be chairing the meeting and you can refer to DECIDIM for the agenda16:08
jelknercan we use our May First NextCloud calendar in some way?16:08
klariosyes jelkner 16:08
jelkneri use it for on my own16:08
jelknerbut it is a shared calendar16:08
klarioshmm I can figure something out16:08
klarioswith johan 16:08
jelknergreat16:08
jelkneror ask jetro to help you16:08
jelknerthey are looking for work i hear ;-)16:08
klariosso I heard !16:09
thomasboimahlol16:09
klariosI will let them know!16:09
jelknerfkoikoi, can you stay a few minutes after to talk about the office?16:09
jelknerif no one has anything else, we can end the meeting16:10
klariosI will head out now jelkner 16:10
klariosand al16:10
klarioset al ig16:10
jelknerbye klarios 16:10
jelknerthanks!16:10
klariosof course! thank you all for coming, have a good day!16:10
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jelknerfkoikoi, are you here?16:10
jelknerjetro folks, can we talk about the office?16:11
fkoikoii'm here jelkner16:11
fkoikoi+116:11
jelknergreat, i talk to mr. zawolo regularly16:11
jelknerhe tells me some of you are getting frustrated with how long this is taking16:12
jelknerso i wanted to check-in with you16:12
jelkneri'm really happy about the research you have done fkoikoi 16:12
jelknerthat is SO important16:12
jelknersome things will take time16:12
jelknerA LOT of time, in some cases16:12
jelknerfor example, the school we want to build is years away16:13
jelknerwe'll never get it unless we have the capacity to plan long term, and to follow through on our plans16:13
jelknerthe office is much shorter term16:13
jelknerbut we still needed to plan16:13
jelknerfkoikoi, you are in regular touch with mr. zawolo, yes?16:13
fkoikoiyes16:14
jelknerso please try to work with him now to make a more specific plan16:14
jelknerhe says he will provide funding toward the project16:15
jelknerwe didn't talk about how much, but i am going to ask him to go in 50-50 with me16:15
jelkneryou need a year rent, right?16:15
fkoikoiyes16:15
jelkneri know you found places with costs that ranged from $95 to $140 per month16:16
fkoikoithat's right 16:16
jelknerjetro and mr. zawolo need to agree on which place you are going to try for16:16
jelkneryou need between $1140 and $168016:17
jelknerif he covers half and i cover half16:17
jelknerthat's between $570 and $840 each16:18
jelkneri can't do the $840 at once16:18
jelknerwith the other stipend i've been sending16:18
jelknerthat's why we needed to save16:18
jelknerdaniel sent me the bank statement16:19
jelknerlooks like you've been saving16:19
jelknerso it looks like we could move ahead16:19
fkoikoialright, I will reach out to him and get back to you before Tuesday 16:19
jelknerbut you need to confirm with mr. zawolo that he is ready to contribute, and then figure out how we get the money to you16:19
jelknerlast thing to say on this16:20
jelknerhe is coming to Liberia in August16:20
jelknerso at the very latest16:20
jelkneryou could get the place then16:20
jelknerlet's make that the goal16:20
jelknerno later than August16:20
jelknersound good?16:20
jelknerare you ok with that?16:21
fkoikoi+116:21
fkoikoithat's cool jelkner 16:21
jelknerother jetro folks?16:21
jelknergabriel_jetro, mulbah thomasboimah?16:21
jelknerjkollie_, 16:22
thomasboimah+116:22
jkollie_+116:22
thomasboimahThanks for the help again jkollie_ 16:22
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thomasboimah*jekner i mean16:22
jelknerlast thing, just cause it is a fun idea16:22
jelknerSahnun told me this morning he would like to come with Mr. Zawolo and me to Liberia in Summer 202616:23
jelknerthat would be awesome16:23
fkoikoiawesome16:23
fkoikoiso we will get a chance to meet him in person right??16:23
jelknerok everyone, i need to do homework16:23
jelkneryes fkoikoi 16:23
jelknerthat's the point16:23
fkoikoialright, thanks jelkner 16:24
jelknerthomasboimah, mulbah, gabriel_jetro, when do you want to meet next?16:24
jelknerto check-in on your work, i mean?16:24
jelknerstand up meeting16:24
jelkner11:00 UTC16:24
jelknerfor 10 to 15 minutes16:24
mulbahWednesday16:24
jelknerperfect16:24
jelknerit's on my calendar16:25
jelknersee you then...16:25
fkoikoiHave a great day jelkner16:25
jelknerhave a great rest of your weekend!16:25
jelknerACTION signs off16:25
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