IRC log of #jetrowebdev for Wednesday, 2026-02-25

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jelknerGood morning dcammue and fkoikoi 11:46
fkoikoiGood morning jelkner 11:46
fkoikoidid you see the mail i sent this morning jelkner??11:47
jelkneri did11:47
jelknercan we chat about it before the stand up?11:47
fkoikoii mean the one i just sent jelkner11:47
jelknerhmmm... let me look11:47
fkoikoiokay11:47
jelknerok, just saw it11:49
fkoikoialright11:50
jelknerok, i think i see where you are trying to go11:50
jelknerbut i think you are getting ahead of yourself11:50
jelknerdecidim is used to make decisions11:50
jelknerit means "We decide" in Catalan11:50
fkoikoi+111:50
jelknerit is Tony who really helped me understand this11:51
dcammuehow are you jelkner 11:51
jelknerit is *not* a project management system11:51
jelknerso what we need to do is to get NoVASEN folks to weigh-in on, and then decide (hopefully) to support the initiative already posted.11:51
fkoikoiokay11:52
jelknerhttps://novasen.org/assemblies/nova-solidarity-econ/f/53/debates/1311:52
jelknerwe don't need any more proposals in the decidim at this point11:53
jelknerit is now political work11:53
jelknerwe (klarios, rachel, sahnun, and jelkner) need to promote this idea and encourage folks to support it11:53
jelknerthat will take time11:53
jelknerso, even though i know you are eager to get moving11:53
jelknerwe are blocking on that11:53
jelknerand need to wait until we can reach a place where NoVASEN can "approve" the support11:54
jelknerwe don't even know how to approve anything yet11:54
fkoikoiokay, so what is my task now?11:54
jelknersince we haven't established our governance11:54
fkoikoiwhat is my actual task now?11:54
jelknerthat's a great question!11:55
jelknerand sadly, fkoikoi, i don't have a clear answer11:55
jelknerhere is what i would suggest11:55
jelkneryou can use the blocking time to continue your basic web studies11:55
fkoikoisure11:56
jelknerif we are doing web development, we all need to know basic html, csss11:56
jelknerask dcammue and tboihmah for ideas11:56
jelknerdcammue, can we talk?11:56
fkoikoi+111:56
dcammuesure11:56
jelknernone of you came to the Django class yesterday11:56
dcammue+111:56
jelknerdid you see the logs11:56
jelknerKaraa, Josh and Ben were looking for you11:57
dcammuei was online till 5pm my time11:57
dcammueand i slept off11:57
jelknerbelieve me, i know how hard this is11:57
dcammuei woke up and everyone left already11:57
jelknerbut we loose time when nobody shows11:57
jelknerfortunately, they are top students11:58
jelknerand can move forward on their own11:58
dcammueour apologies11:58
jelkneri asked Kara to email the Matorral devs11:58
jelknerthomasboimah: we missed you in class yesterday11:59
gabriel_jetro_Sorry jelkner I lost track 11:59
thomasboimahGood jelkner 11:59
thomasboimah*morning11:59
jelknergabriel_jetro_: you too11:59
thomasboimahSorry about that11:59
gabriel_jetro_Good morning jelkner 11:59
thomasboimahI though you guys was on break11:59
jelknerlisten, as i keep saying11:59
jelknerwe will always make mistakes11:59
gabriel_jetro_Once again my apology 11:59
jelknerthe error rate will never go to 011:59
jelknerbut we need to keep it low12:00
jelkneryesterday it was 100% for jetro web :-(12:00
jelkner3 of 3 of you did not show up12:00
jelknerthat can be demoralizing12:00
jelknerand kill progress12:00
jelknerour schedule here is crazy12:00
jelknerwe get that12:00
jelknerso the lesson is about the need to improve communication12:01
jelkneroops12:01
jelkneri lost the clock12:01
dcammueOn Tuesday, I work on the Jetro Web Attendance and completed it, it is now ready for use https://github.com/dcammue/JetrowebAttendence. The application is not hosted yet but you can test it by following the instruction from the repository. Today, i will work with thomasboimah on finding the best way to hosting the SECOSOL GnuCash database on Mayfirst server.12:01
svayeOn did a lot of reading on Liberia tax law so I could start applying it to our books this is what I have gather so far that has to do with the type of business we operate in Liberia https://codeberg.org/svaye/pages/src/branch/main/jetrowebtax.md , and jelkner also mentioned us working on the business plan and this is the draft I did https://codeberg.org/klarios/Business_Management/src/branch/main/jetroweb.md, I believe dcammue and I can take a look at 12:01
svayethat today.No blockers12:01
thomasboimahYesterday I reached out to Mayfirst support about Jeff's request to use PostgreSQL with GnuCash for collaborative bookkeeping, and I received a response from Jamie. Unfortunately, direct remote connections to PostgreSQL are not allowed on Mayfirst's shared hosting due to their security policy. However, Jamie suggested a workaround using SSH tunneling, where users establish an SSH connection to the web server first and then forward the port 12:01
thomasboimahconnection to the PostgreSQL server, making it appear as if the database is running locally. Jamie provided an example command: ssh -L local_port:remote_db_host:remote_db_port user@remote_ssh_server.12:01
jelknerYesterday i submitted my UoPeople writing assignment and began researching NGOs in Liberia (see https://codeberg.org/jelkner/SolidarityEconomyNotes/src/branch/main/PeoplesSchoolLiberia). I'm also setting up a PHP learning environment for one of my students, which may be something cjones and I use on our ict.gracehopper.center website next year. Today i will prepare for cjones and my presentation at the VCCS OER, Distance Education, and Technology 12:01
jelknerPeer to Peer Group Conference tomorrow and Friday.  No blockers.12:01
dcammueACTION done12:01
svayeACTION done12:01
thomasboimahMy next steps today are to create a new PostgreSQL database on our SECOSOL membership specifically for GnuCash (separate from the existing website database). Since this is shared hosting and I don't have sudo access, I'll then need to email Jamie to set up the role structure Jeff documented. Once the database and roles are set up, we'll test the SSH tunneling approach with the team. No blockers.12:01
jelknerACTION done12:01
thomasboimahACTION done12:01
jelknerthomasboimah: i saw jamie's email12:02
jelknerkeep in mind we are investigating here12:02
jelknerif it turns out ssh tunneling is too complicated for users12:02
fkoikoiYesterday I did some practice on html and css. I also did a research on the kamal foundation. Today I place to continue with my html and css practice while i waits for a suitable time form the team (jelkner and the rest) to start the school project using Decidim12:02
fkoikoiACTION done12:02
jelknerwe need to abandon the plan for now, and seek another approach12:03
jelknerwhich will most likely be running our own database server12:03
jelknerso, thomasboimah, please keep working with zOnny to get a handle on *all* our linodes!12:03
jelknerand let's keep removing the ones we don't use12:03
jelknerwe will need some12:03
jelknerbut i just want to make sure we minimize the number12:04
jelknerand utilize them effectively12:04
jelknermake sense?12:04
thomasboimahDose that mean we will not go with the plan on moving the database to mayfirst again?12:04
jelknerthat will be your call, my dear friend12:04
jelkneryou should continue with the investigation until you feel you can make a recommendation12:05
thomasboimahBecause if you ask me ssh Tunneling will not be bad12:05
jelkneri'm not saying i know ssh tunneling is too complicated12:05
jelkneri just fear it might be12:05
jelknerhow do you tell GnuCash to use it?12:05
jelknerif that is not a real pain, then we are good12:05
jelknerbut if we can't easily do that, we are blocked12:06
jelknermake sense?12:06
thomasboimahokay12:06
thomasboimah+112:06
jelknerbtw. (and dcammue and svaye, this is for you too)12:06
jelknerwhen i hire Jetro to look into something, the hours you spend investigating are billable12:06
dcammue+112:06
jelknereven if you come back with a well researched argument not to proceed12:07
jelknerno can do is an ok outcome, as long as it is based on a solid investigation12:07
jelknerthen we iterate and look for an alternative approach12:07
jelknerthat's tech for you!12:07
jelknermake sense?12:08
svaye+112:08
dcammue+112:08
jelknerthomasboimah: i have one more idea for you12:08
jelknerit should be fun12:08
jelkneri want jetro to look into a hexchat notification hack for dcammue 12:09
jelknerhexchat supports notification12:09
jelkners12:09
jelknerso here is my user story:12:09
jelknerAs a project manager and marketing person for NOVA / Jetro Web Development, I want to be able to reach dcammue at unplanned times by typing his nick into the #jetrowebdev chat so that we can improve our communication.12:10
jelknerso imagine this12:11
jelknerdcammue is napping, and jelkner logs into irc to look for him12:11
jelknerWhen jelkner types "dcammue, are you here?" into hexchat12:11
jelknera light lights up and a sweet sound plays ;-)12:12
jelknerso that dcammue knows to look at the console12:12
jelkneranyway, its just a fun idea12:12
jelknerok, anything else before i go?12:12
jelkneri won't be in class tomorrow thomasboimah dcammue gabriel_jetro 12:13
jelknerbut Kara, Josh and Ben will12:13
jelknerplease meet with them (at least one of you!()12:13
dcammueyes jelkner 12:13
gabriel_jetroWhat about jgarara, because that's my peer12:13
jelknerthat's Josh gabriel_jetro 12:13
jelknerhold on12:13
gabriel_jetroOkay 12:13
dcammuebefore you go can we talk on the jetroweb attendance?12:13
dcammue*application12:14
jelknerwhat do you mean attendance?12:15
dcammuehttps://github.com/dcammue/JetrowebAttendence12:16
dcammuefor tracking jetroweb workers hours12:16
jelkneryou're writing a new one?12:17
jelknerwhat about business tracker?12:17
dcammuecan we host it on mayfirst?12:17
dcammuethat's just my dream i try to put into reality12:18
jelknerwhat is "it" dcammue?12:19
dcammuethis might be slightly different from business tracker, even though, i have not seen it yet12:19
dcammueit is a django application for tracking worker hours12:20
jelknerdcammue, this is great that we are having this discussion12:20
jelknerit shows how far we have come12:20
jelkner*and* how far we have to go! ;-)12:20
jelknerif you all want to develop an hours tracker as a learning task12:21
jelknerthat is great12:21
jelknerbut remember the hours working on it will not be billable12:21
jelknerbusiness tracker already tracks hours12:21
jelknerit even tracks hours by task12:21
jelkneri will be willing to pay for improvements to business tracker12:21
jelknerbut it is a complex app12:22
jelknerand i don't know if even thomasboimah is ready to hack on it yet12:22
jelknerthough he and zOnny were looking into it last weekend12:22
jelknernone of these tools are any use at all if we don't use them12:22
jelknerthat is a social engineering challenge, not a technical one12:22
jelknerit means developing a culture of practice12:23
jelknerwhere the community gets used to doing certain things12:23
jelknerlike meeting here on irc, for example12:23
jelkneri worked so hard to get us all used to doing this12:23
jelkneri'm old, so i have some experience12:24
jelkneri've made more mistakes than i can count (or remember)12:24
jelknerbut i try to learn from them12:24
jelknerthe challenge will be getting people to use a tool as part of their daily routine12:24
jelknersame problem the tech giants have12:24
jelknerthey want people hooked on Facebook, TicTock, etc.12:25
jelknerso that you are there *all the time*12:25
jelknerthat's how they make their money12:25
jelkneranyway12:25
jelknerwe need to develop an effective workflow12:25
jelknerand then comes the hard part12:25
jelknergetting us accustomed to following it!12:26
jelknerthat's the harder part12:26
jelknerone things devs like to do is write code12:26
jelknerso they want to just develop new apps12:26
jelknerits fun for them12:26
dcammuesure12:26
jelknerthey don't worry about getting people to use them12:26
jelknerthat's the job of us business managers, dcammue, svaye, jelkner 12:27
jelknerso we really need to think clearly12:27
jelknerwe will want to learn to use business tracker for hours12:27
jelknerStefan built it12:28
jelknerand it does a lot12:28
jelknernot enough, mind you, but alot12:28
jelknerit certainly does hours12:28
jelknerwhat we will want is to reach the point where Jetro can hack on it12:28
jelknerthink about its advantages:12:28
jelkner1. It already has hundreds of hours of dev time in it.12:29
jelkner2. It supports many of the features we want to track our business, since we built it for us.12:29
jelkner3. It has nice marketing materials.12:29
jelknerhttps://businesstracker.org/12:29
jelknerso if we can get to the point where y'all can hack on it12:30
jelknerit will be a huge marketing plus for us12:30
jelknerit is a central part of our "portfolio"12:30
jelknerwhen we show perspective customers what we can do12:30
jelkner(what our skills are)12:30
jelknerwe point them to that12:30
jelknerhttps://libreorganize.org/12:31
jelknerthis one too12:31
jelknerNow that doesn't mean that you all shouldn't try to built your own things as you learn12:32
jelkneryou need to practice12:32
jelknerand i think your hours tracker is great practice!12:32
jelknerbut i can't afford to pay for too much more practice12:33
jelknersince we need to get NOVA and Jetro on a sound business footing12:33
jelkneror we won't survive long12:33
jelkneris this making sense?12:34
dcammue+112:34
dcammuebut i am not saying i want pay12:34
jelknerright12:34
jelknerso what are you asking me about it?12:34
jelknerif you want to use it now with Jetro only so you can get the info you need to write your monthly bookkeeping12:35
jelknerthat's a *great* idea12:35
dcammuei just you guys to test it and tell me the experience12:35
jelkner"you guys"?  NO! YOU GUYS!12:35
jelknerlol12:35
jelknerdcammue: you are the business manager for Jetro12:35
jelknerget your people to test it12:35
dcammueokay12:36
jelknerdon't bother us with that ;-)12:36
jelknerwe are very busy12:36
jelknerand you are closer to the problem12:36
dcammuei will do for only you my friend. just kidding12:36
jelknerit makes so much more sense for you to manage Jetro members12:36
jelknerlol12:36
jelknerin all seriousness, this is a great opportunity for Jetro to dogfood12:36
jelknerboth technically and socially12:37
jelkneryou are building a tool for yourselves12:37
jelknerand using it to accomplish important internal business needs12:37
jelknerif y'all want to get paid, you need to track your hours!12:37
dcammuegreat12:38
jelknereventually, when your lead dev thomasboimah says y'all are ready12:38
jelknerwe (meaning Jetro *and* NOVA) can start using Business Tracker together12:38
jelknerthat will mean a switch for Jetro members12:38
jelknerbut hopefully not a painful one12:38
jelknermake sense?12:39
dcammue+112:39
jelknerlet me leave now12:39
dcammueokay12:39
jelknerwe are making incredible progress!12:39
dcammueyou are free man now 12:39
jelkneri can't begin to tell you how excited i am by the way this is moving forward12:40
dcammueyou can go anywhere you want 12:40
jelkneri'll be at a conference on friday12:40
jelknerbut i *think* i can make the meeting12:40
jelknerno promises12:40
jelknersaturday i'll be there12:40
dcammuecopied12:40
jelknerACTION signs off12:40
jelknerthanks my wonderful friends12:40
jelknerhave a great evening12:40
dcammueyou to12:41
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jelknerHello dcammue 15:18
jelknerand mulbah 15:18
jelknerare either of you here?15:18
dcammuehello jelkner 15:21
dcammuehow are you15:22
jelknerfine, and you?15:22
jelknercan you see this: https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/12O0WZFU1j_tWz19Bp04gExoBX7tSLemS15:22
mulbahHello jeff15:23
jelknerhello mulbah 15:23
dcammueit asking me for access15:23
jelknerahh15:23
jelknerhold on...15:23
dcammueokay15:23
jelknerhttps://drive.google.com/file/d/1klMNh1bfrVluStpRoz_CoJhA-qW-b2t3/view?usp=sharing15:24
jelknerhow about that?15:24
jelknerwell, dcammue?15:25
dcammuei saw three people in the image15:25
jelkneryes indeed15:25
dcammueokay15:25
jelknerthose 3 people are Josh, Ben, and Kara15:25
jelknercan we get a picture on your end of Gabriel, you, and Thomas?15:26
jelknerit's a nice way to get to know each other a little better15:26
dcammueokay15:26
jelkneryou can share it with them tomorrow15:26
jelkneri won't be there15:26
jelknerbut they will15:26
dcammueso those are the students we usually meet with?15:27
jelkneryes, my friend, Josh, Ben and Kara15:28
gabriel_jetroI've seen it jelkner 15:28
dcammueand who is my peer15:28
jelknerGabriel is working with Josh, Daniel is working with Ben, and Thomas is working with Kara15:28
jelkneri believe that is correct15:29
jelkneryou all should know better than me15:29
dcammueben is the blackman?15:29
jelknerKara's nick is Karaa15:29
gabriel_jetroSo who's the black person and how many male is there in the photo 15:29
jelknerThey are in order from left to right: Josh, Ben, and Kara15:30
mulbahit's just one gabriel_jetro15:30
jelknerok, i need to go again15:30
jelknerdcammue: it was nice dropping in and seeing you here15:30
jelknerthat is what we want to aim for15:30
dcammuesweet15:30
jelknerwhen you are running a proper business15:31
gabriel_jetroYep, but it's seems like two ladies in the photo 15:31
jelknerpeople should be able to "drop in" during business hours15:31
jelknerand contact you this way15:31
jelknerit's great15:31
jelknerNo, Ben is not a lady, he just has long hair15:31
gabriel_jetroOhk 15:32
dcammuehe has the golden hair15:32
gabriel_jetroLol 😆15:32
mulbahhaha15:32
mulbahhe look like a female 15:32
jelknermulbah: a word on cultural sensitivity15:33
jelknerthis is a publically logged chat, so let's avoid discussion that are personal or potentially sensitive15:33
jelknerthat is a good best practice15:34
jelknerwe are here to collaborate15:34
mulbahokay jeff15:34
jelknerand we keep our conversation professional and respectful15:34
jelknerhopefully at all times15:34
jelknerwe're human, so mistakes may crop up15:34
jelknerbut our success means minimizing them15:34
gabriel_jetroSure jelkner 15:35
jelknerbtw, i'm hoping to take this class at UoPeople next term: https://www.uopeople.edu/programs/course/managing-in-the-global-economy/15:36
jelknerit will give me a chance to write a lot about:15:37
jelkner1. Identify and distinguish professional cultural norms and their importance within an organization.15:37
jelkner2. Examine the central importance of Cultural and Emotional Intelligences to today’s leaders.15:37
jelkner3. Examine the impact of cultural norms on relationship building and explore the complexities of building cross-cultural teams.15:37
jelkner5. Employ strategic thinking, cultural intelligence and other competencies to build teams that can function in culturally diverse and complex environments.15:37
jelknerJust the kind of thing we will need for the Jetro / NOVA collaboration to work, right?15:38
dcammue=115:38
dcammue+115:38
jelknerThis course will be much more fun for me than the one I'm in now!15:39
jelknerI am learning a lot in my current course, but it is often painful ;-)15:39
jelknerdcammue, since you are studying business, you may find the paper I submitted yesterday interesting: https://elkner.net/static/UoPeople/ComparingInvestmentYieldsInAFinancialPortfolio.pdf15:40
jelkneri put any paper that i think may be of use to us on my website: https://elkner.net/15:40
jelknerand i try real hard to make them useful to us15:41
jelknerif they aren't, i'm wasting my time!15:41
dcammuewow, that nice i will take a look after this15:41
jelknerokie dokie, gotta run15:41
jelknergreat chatting with you15:41
gabriel_jetrojelkner: are they senior student 15:41
dcammuewhat is their educational status?15:42
dcammueclass level15:42
jelknerJosh, Ben and Kara?15:42
gabriel_jetroYes15:42
dcammue+115:42
dcammuehigh school?15:42
jelknerThey are sophomores in high school15:42
jelkner2nd year15:42
jelkneri will have them in class 2 more years15:42
dcammue11 grade15:43
gabriel_jetroOhk 15:43
jelkner10th grade15:43
dcammueokay15:43
jelknerthey are the top students in our program15:43
jelknerbright and highly motivated15:43
dcammuethat's grate15:43
jelknerso they finished the year long course early15:43
jelknerthat's why they are in a group by themselves15:43
gabriel_jetroI see 15:43
jelknerokie dokie, by for now...15:44
jelknerACTION logs off15:44
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dcammuemulbah, 15:45
dcammuehmmmm15:45
mulbahyes15:45
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