IRC log of #novawebdev for Sunday, 2018-03-04

*** jelkner has joined #novawebdev09:46
*** replaceafill has joined #novawebdev10:00
jelknerGood morning, replaceafill!10:02
replaceafillgood morning jelkner!10:02
jelkner!remind Getting on the tech-coops list:
Big_Brother"Getting on the tech-coops list:" added to message queue10:03
jelkner!remind NOVAWeb tendenci instance for NOVALACIRO10:04
Big_Brother"NOVAWeb tendenci instance for NOVALACIRO" added to message queue10:04
replaceafilljelkner, is that the new name for Bravo?10:05
replaceafilljelkner, got it10:05
jelknerNorthern Virginia Latino Civil Rights Organization10:05
replaceafilljelkner, nice10:05
jelknerour organizer started yesterday10:05
jelknerand we had a really nice meeting with the board last night10:06
*** mjsir911 has joined #novawebdev10:06
replaceafilljelkner, what's the difference between an organizer and a manager/administrator?10:07
jelkneran organizer is tasked with organizing10:07
jelknerwe want to build NOVALACIRO into a membership organization with an elected board10:08
jelknerby next Summer10:08
replaceafilljelkner, it's not like they are "running" the organization10:08
jelknerso Daniela's task is knocking on doors, going to meetings where people gather10:08
jelknerand listening to them about their concerns10:08
replaceafilljelkner, ah i see10:08
jelknerand developing a program of action to organize folks to meet their needs.10:09
replaceafilljelkner, interesting job :)10:09
jelknerwe sent her to training last weekend at New Virginia Majority10:09
jelknerShe now knows the NVM folks pretty well.10:12
jelknerSo when we build an AMS for NOVALACIRO, we can show it to TWU and NVM and say, "See, we could do this for you too!"10:12
replaceafilljelkner, wow, nice academy10:12
replaceafilljelkner, +110:13
jelknerIt was great timing.10:13
jelknerDaniela left feeling totally inspired, and with a good sense of what she needs to do10:14
jelknerbtw I had to get her a mobile phone for the organization, so she is now one of 2 people in Northern Virginia with an Ubuntu Touch phone ;-)10:14
jelkner3 if we count mjsir91110:15
replaceafilljelkner, oh i've been meaning to ask you, what kind of phone do you have?10:15
jelknerOne Plus One10:15
jelknerOh, and there are more possible synergies10:16
jelknerDaniela is skilled in graphics art10:16
jelknerShe did the Logo for this.10:17
jelknerWhich mjsir911 is busy porting to our new phones.10:17
replaceafilljelkner, ah10:17
jelknerwith the help of alex hirshberg, who wrote it originally10:18
replaceafilljelkner, does the One Plus One comes with Ubuntu by default?10:18
replaceafilljelkner, ah ok10:18
jelknerbut it is one of the three officially supported phones10:18
*** lelkneralfaro has joined #novawebdev10:24
jelknerGood morning, lelkneralfaro!10:24
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jelknerTake a look at the log for the last few minutes10:24
lelkneralfaromorning jelkner10:24
jelknerreplaceafill and i have been sharing info you will find relevant10:24
mr_germangood morning 10:25
jelknergood morning, mr_german!10:25
lelkneralfarojelkner, that's great about Daniela10:26
jelknerit sure it10:26
jelknershe is off to a wonderful start10:26
jelknershe has skills, energy, and enthusiasm10:27
lelkneralfaro!remind update on tendenci plan10:27
Big_Brother"update on tendenci plan" added to message queue10:27
*** nrcerna has joined #novawebdev10:27
jelknergood morning, nrcerna!10:27
nrcernaGood morning! jelkner 10:28
*** zOnny has joined #novawebdev10:29
jelknergood morning, zOnny!10:29
Big_BrotherShould we be setting up our own internal tendenci for our use and customer support?10:30
lelkneralfarogood morning everyone!10:30
zOnnygood morning jelkner10:30
lelkneralfarookay from the top10:30
replaceafillgood morning everybody10:30
lelkneralfarojelkner, looks like your writing...10:30
jelknerit is10:30
lelkneralfarojelkner, want to elaborate?10:30
lelkneralfarojelkner, I've thought about the question myself10:30
jelknerwhat needs elaborating?10:30
jelknerthe discussion centers around the cost (time) vs. benefits of doing that10:31
jelknermaybe replaceafill could weigh in10:31
lelkneralfarojelkner, that's the elaboration10:31
replaceafilljelkner, what do we need it for exactly?10:31
replaceafilljelkner, as a contact management system?10:32
jelknerwell, i was thinking that we would use:10:32
jelkner1. voting (as we become a democratic workers coop we'll be doing more of that)10:32
jelkner2. communications (mailing lists for specific customer service groups like AEA etc.10:33
jelknerby dogfooding, it would help us all learn our main product too10:33
replaceafilljelkner, ah i see10:33
jelknerthose are my motivations10:33
jelknernot sure if they are on target or not10:33
jelknerthat's why i'm bringing it up10:34
replaceafilljelkner, so we add customers to their specific mailing list and we ask them to write to that address, right?10:35
*** ubuntourist has joined #novawebdev10:35
replaceafilljelkner, got it10:35
replaceafilljelkner, can you describe voting a bit more?10:35
replaceafilljelkner, i mean, what kind of voting do you see us doing internally?10:35
jelknerperhaps lelkneralfaro could take that on10:35
jelkneryes, absolutely10:35
lelkneralfarojelkner, well I think it's premature10:35
lelkneralfarojelkner, on the voting10:36
lelkneralfarojelkner, any voting we may due in the near future is going to be very simple10:36
lelkneralfarojelkner, if we want to take on another member for example10:36
lelkneralfarojelkner, or vote on taking on a client10:36
jelkneri understand, so the question is, even though it is more tech then we need, which normally argues against using it10:37
jelkneris the added benefit of learning our product a counter weight to that argument in this case?10:37
lelkneralfarojelkner, for me I don't think it's going to give me any more time to practice as a user than the testing instances would10:38
jelknerit is a testing instance10:38
lelkneralfarojelkner, well not a significant amount of time10:38
jelknerwith a benefit of it being meaningful10:38
jelknerin fact, we could be using now10:38
jelknerafter we have a 10 minutes discussion of "Should we create our own tendenci instance?"10:39
lelkneralfarojelkner, if we were using to communicate with customers it wouldn't be a testing instance in the way I'm thinking of the temporary setups that replaceafill makes10:39
jelknerwe could vote on that10:39
replaceafilljelkner, i think it's good that voting seems premature because we have the second point figured out, the first one not so much10:39
jelknerok, i'm done on this10:39
jelknerjust wanted to bring it up10:39
lelkneralfaroI vote no10:39
replaceafill+0 from me10:39
lelkneralfaronext item10:40
replaceafillnot that +0 is different from -0 :)10:40
lelkneralfarothe tech coop list10:40
lelkneralfarojelkner, should we first become a coop?10:41
lelkneralfarojelkner, legally speaking10:41
lelkneralfarojelkner, or do you think it doesn't matter?10:41
jelkneri don't know, that's why i'm bringing it up10:41
lelkneralfarojelkner, I don't like the idea of portraying ourselves as something we aren't yet10:41
jelknerwe have these chicken and egg questions a lot10:41
ubuntourist(Which, if we go back in e-mail, I have mentioned... But I think the reason we didn't do it then is exactly the reason you're raising.)10:41
jelknerif we don't get ourselves "out there", we won't succeed10:42
jelknerthat's what marketing is10:42
lelkneralfarojelkner, well we should become a coop10:42
jelknerand often times the need to meet some deadline or goal is what pushes things forward10:42
lelkneralfarojelkner, I'll work on that today. been focusing more on collecting money and then the business plan this past week10:43
jelknerthings are so interrelated10:43
jelknerwe will be selling ourselves as a coop10:44
jelknerso collecting money and becoming a coop are two sides of the same coin10:44
lelkneralfaroI literally mean collecting money10:44
jelkneri understand10:45
jelkneri'm just saying that all of this needs to proceed in some kind of parallel fashion10:45
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jelkneryou can only do one thing at a time, but the art of figuring out how to task switch and balance things is what this is all about10:46
lelkneralfaroyes, things are moving forward10:46
ubuntourist(FWIW, I also mentioned The Internet of Ownership platform co-op directory - on Jan 1, 2017.)10:46
lelkneralfaroso I think we should legally establish ourselves a cooperative10:47
lelkneralfaroI'll get the paperwork in order for that this week10:47
lelkneralfaroand then we can get on directories10:47
lelkneralfaroNovaWeb tendenci instance for 10:47
lelkneralfarois that yours?10:48
jelkneryup, i only want to inform folks10:48
jelknerNOVALACIRO is the Northern Virginia Latino Civil Rights Organization10:49
jelknerwhich BRAVO turned into last night10:49
jelknerwe have an organizer who started yesterday10:49
jelknerlast week she went to a 3 day training with New Virginia Majority10:49
jelkneri would like zOnny to be primarily responsible for working with her on the website10:50
jelknerwe want it to be a model to show NVM when we pitch our services to them in a month or so10:50
jelknerthat's all i have on that10:50
zOnnysure, jelkner10:50
lelkneralfarookay then final point10:50
lelkneralfaroupdate on tendenci sales plan10:51
lelkneralfaroso after hacking away at the business plan10:52
lelkneralfaroI think that I've realized we may want to take another approach10:52
lelkneralfarothe business plan is used mainly for attracting investors10:52
lelkneralfaroit largely has to do with market research10:52
lelkneralfaroand competitor research, and descriptions of how you want be undercut, etc...10:53
lelkneralfarowhat I think that we are doing is more about targeting specific customers, not investors, and proposing to them that we can service their technological needs10:53
lelkneralfaroso whatever documents we write up, need to be more tailored to the person we are reaching out to10:54
lelkneralfaroso Rand may want to see one thing10:54
lelkneralfarothe NEA or other unions another (more like a project plan that ubuntourist has)10:55
lelkneralfaroso we need to be clear on what we need to gather and then set up meeting dates with the key decision makers for funding.10:55
ubuntouristSorry. Had to take care of HacDC business. Catching up.10:56
lelkneralfaroas far as providing service to a group like NEA, the costs of operations are going to be based on their needs10:56
lelkneralfaroso we would have to be working with them to come up with our numbers. 10:57
ubuntourist"The Art of the Deal" ;-)10:58
lelkneralfaroso I think the point right now is to try to get direct communication with the potential funders and customers, and gather what we need for them. 10:58
ubuntouristBut seriously... Looking at GitHub / GitLab logs may be a good way to gauge speed of progress. Armed with that, one can project (realistically) how long something will take.10:59
ubuntouristAnd we have ideas about our hourly rates. So, those together should be what we approach potential clients with, and if necessary, negotiate or abandon from there.11:00
lelkneralfaroubuntourist, for sure, but in the case of the NEA, we aren't sure about what size and scope of their project would be. Our staffing plan and timeline would have to be based on their projected wants11:01
jelknerlelkneralfaro, i want to let you finish your presentation, and then i'd like to comment11:01
lelkneralfarocorrect me if i am wrong replaceafill, but after speaking a few weeks ago I don't think right now we have the capacity to provide service to a larger organization11:02
ubuntouristlelkneralfaro, Yeah, being able to ask all the right questions about what a client wants / needs is a good place to start. Sorry. Didn't mean to interrupt.11:02
lelkneralfarono problem at all ubuntourist11:02
lelkneralfarothat's it for me11:02
replaceafilllelkneralfaro, right11:02
jelkneractually, ubuntourist, i'm glad your made your interjection about "The Art of the Deal"11:03
replaceafilllelkneralfaro, as you said, it'll depend on what they'll need11:03
jelknerit is important to me to keep what we are trying to do at a deep level in mind11:03
jelknerThe Art of the Deal is about becoming a shark11:03
jelknerand turning other human beings into shark meat11:03
jelknerif y'all decide you want to do that, i'm outta here11:04
jelknerhere is what i think lelkneralfaro should be doing:11:04
jelkner1. Looking at online examples of what other coops consider a "business plan"11:04
jelkner2. choosing the best of what is available from open source examples, create a gitlab repo with ours (even as a work in progress)11:05
jelkner3. invite the rest of us to hack on it with him11:05
jelknerwe need a statement of our vision and mission11:06
lelkneralfarojelkner, I have that11:06
jelkneris it on gitlab?11:06
lelkneralfarojelkner, at least a tentative one, that others can review11:06
lelkneralfarojelkner, no not on git lab11:06
lelkneralfarojelkner, google doc11:06
jelkneroh, ok11:06
lelkneralfarojelkner, I can share now11:06
lelkneralfarojelkner, and put it in the shared folder11:06
jelknerour goal should be to make it public11:07
lelkneralfarowhen ready yea11:07
jelknerbut we could hack on it together first11:07
jelkner"ready" is an interesting point11:07
jelknerit needs perhaps to be "ready enough"11:07
lelkneralfarojelkner, that's what I mean11:07
jelknerbut not "done" in any sense11:07
lelkneralfarojelkner, but the point I'm trying to make is one about specific types of documents11:08
jelknerlelkneralfaro, have you looked at the links to "business plans" that ubuntourist shared with us?11:08
lelkneralfarojelkner, no, I've looked at others11:08
ubuntouristCan we -- and I do include me in that -- pool some cash and send lelkneralfaro on a learning expedition to a conference to both network and learn?  (Limited funds, so the choice of which conference would need to be carefully made. But maybe Platform Co-op.)11:08
jelknerubuntourist has a few open source ones that he is familiar with11:08
jelkneryou should start with those11:09
ubuntourist"Fact finding mission" ;-)11:09
jelknersince they are most closely aligned with our goals of transparency and collaboration11:09
lelkneralfarojelkner, I agree those are good examples11:09
lelkneralfarojelkner, but the point here I'm trying to make doesn't have much to do with values11:10
jelknerkeep it simple and don't over think this if you can11:10
lelkneralfarojelkner, it's more about financials11:10
lelkneralfarojelkner, I'm not overthinking it lol11:10
lelkneralfarojelkner, I'm trying to keep it simple11:10
jelknerso, you just need something detailed enough (and public, even on our website)11:10
lelkneralfaroubuntourist, a learning/networking thing might be in order soon11:11
jelknerthat we can show to NVM, and you can show to Rand's folks11:11
jelknerto take the next steps in getting them to support us11:11
jelkneri believe they want to know that we:11:11
jelkner1. are serious enough to do what it takes to stay around and struggle11:11
jelkner2. are skilled enough to be able to make a go of producing a viable product11:12
lelkneralfarojelkner, take a look at this 11:12
jelknerACTION goes to look11:12
lelkneralfaroand other interested parties11:12
jelknerok, something real to chew on!11:13
jelknerwe should go through this together first11:13
jelknerand then you should show it to folks like Rand.11:13
lelkneralfarojelkner, yes11:13
jelknerbtw. on a practical point, we are 15 minutes over time11:14
jelknercan we end the meeting and invite folks who want to to stay?11:14
lelkneralfarofor sure11:15
jelknersince we planned to continue in any case.11:15
lelkneralfaroACTION drops the bag of gravel11:15
lelkneralfarosorry for going on too long everyone11:15
replaceafillnp lelkneralfaro11:15
lelkneralfaroin order to understand the business part we're going to need to keep talking11:15
lelkneralfaroso if anyone is interested please stick around11:15
replaceafilljelkner, we were supposed to talk to the Guanaco team at this time11:16
lelkneralfarobut if you want to go now, if you want to know more details or want more explanations11:16
replaceafilljelkner, should we reschedule that?11:16
lelkneralfaroreplaceafill, jelkner i'm available later on today talk about this11:16
jelknerreplaceafill, i'd like to ask something of the Guanaco team while we are here now.11:16
jelknersince our discussion of both coop and voting early this meeting brings up real questions about our practice11:17
jelknerlook back at who voted11:17
jelkneri would suggest we have a task ahead to help folks feel entitled to an opinion11:18
jelknerso that people here who don't normally vote would feel like they have a right to11:18
jelknerwe need to define who a voting member is11:18
jelknerand what the obligations and privileges of membership are11:19
jelknerthat is what becoming a coop means, yes?11:19
jelknerlelkneralfaro, you and i have discussed this often11:19
jelknerwe will only be able to really figure it out in practice11:19
jelknerso we should be intentional about developing our practice11:20
replaceafilljelkner, i talked about this (feeling ownership) with nrcerna and mr_german last week11:20
jelknerand what did they say?11:20
replaceafillthey're here :)11:20
ubuntouristreplaceafill, ;-)11:21
replaceafillnrcerna, mr_german thoughts on jelkner's comments?11:21
jelknertrue, but they tend not to speak up, and i didn't want to put them on the spot.11:21
replaceafilljelkner, i think we should put them on the spot, that's responsibility they need to take11:22
nrcernaAs replaceafill  said , he talked with mr_german  and I11:22
nrcernaI believe we can take more responsability on that and give our opinion11:23
nrcernaWe have to do that often, (I mean , about talk and vote, and other coop things)11:24
nrcernaMaybe in my case, sometimes i have been lost in context11:25
jelknernrcerna, do you feel a desire to be part of a cooperative?11:25
nrcernaYes, i do jelkner 11:25
jelknerso, can i ask your opinion on the following proposal to lelkneralfaro:11:25
jelkner1. he spend the coming week defining better what a coop means, both legally and in terms of function11:26
jelkner2. He will lead a discussion next sunday on what obligations and privileges coop membership entails11:27
jelkner3. we will all get a chance to react and state whether we want to be part of something like that11:28
jelknerDoes that sound like a good use of his time, nrcerna (and others)?11:28
ubuntouristI'm not sure IRC is the best medium... Perhaps augmented / supplemented with a doc / presentation that can be previewed before-hand?11:29
nrcernaI think yes it its jelkner 11:29
jelknerlelkneralfaro, what do you think?11:30
lelkneralfarolelkneralfaro, yes for sure11:30
ubuntourist(I'll just need to remember to preview.)11:30
jelknerwe should get email reminder to do that, ubuntourist 11:31
lelkneralfaroubuntourist, yes I agree you need a presentation11:31
jelknerlelkneralfaro, do you have anything else you wanted to talk about now?11:31
lelkneralfaroone thing11:31
lelkneralfaroubuntourist, I just wanted to acknowledge your point about he networking information gathering mission11:32
lelkneralfaroubuntourist, we are approaching the point where I think it is in order11:32
lelkneralfaroubuntourist, so thanks for offering to help financially11:32
lelkneralfaroubuntourist, but we'll have to do some thinking on what the mission entails first11:33
ubuntouristlelkneralfaro, Yeah. Since I'd be throwing money at the problem, DEFINITELY. ;-)11:33
jelknerspeaking of that, lelkneralfaro, to have an organization based on equality and democracy11:33
jelknerwe all need to contribute11:33
lelkneralfarowe'll have to come up with terms of fair contribution11:34
jelknerthough there needs to a way for members to contribute either time or money (or both) depending on the resources they have available11:34
jelknerand we really need to be come a legal coop11:34
jelknerso that folks who contribute have legal ownership11:35
jelknerthat's what a coop is11:35
lelkneralfarothat'll be my task for this week11:35
jelknercool, we are making good progress11:35
nrcernaSorry to interumpt, is not graphic desing at bussines plan?11:36
jelknergood question, nrcerna 11:36
jelknerthis is my understanding (though we have been developing this as we go)11:37
lelkneralfaronrcerna, thanks for asking. the way I think about it we have two different business ideas we are pursuing, the graphic design/web development11:38
lelkneralfarojelkner, sorry... go ahead11:38
nrcernaI think it was part of "Front end"11:38
jelknerthe two things are very interrelated11:38
jelkneryes, nrcerna, we can't offer a backend product without beautiful design on the front end11:38
jelkneron the other hand, without backend chops we can't charge enough to be sustain us11:39
jelknerso we need both11:39
jelknerwe are finding that in practice11:39
jelkneras we work on our product11:39
jelknerthe need to make the UI both look good and work well is apparent.11:40
jelknerwhat we end up doing will in large part be determined by who we can get to pay us to do things11:40
jelknerbut you are on target bringing this up for discussion11:41
jelknersince how we market ourselves will impact who we get as customers11:41
jelknermy focus of late has been on the AMS aspects of our project11:42
jelknerbut each of our showcase projects needs beautiful design11:42
jelknerACTION is done his long winded explaination11:43
nrcernaI see, thanks jelkner for make it clear. 11:43
ubuntouristAMS? Automated Management Systems? 11:44
jelknerAssociation Management System11:44
jelknerit is what tendenci calls itself11:44
ubuntouristjelkner, Ah. Thanks. I lose track.11:44
jelknera rough equivalent of CMS11:44
jelknerbut with a different emphasis11:45
jelkneri meant CRM11:45
jelknernot CMS11:45
jelknerthese acronyms will be the end of us ;-)11:45
ubuntouristI was thinking the same thing. The Sound Advice project uses VCS a lot...11:46
ubuntourist... and it has nothing to do with version control systems,  It's Virtual Control Surface. Gah!11:46
jelknerokie dokie11:47
jelknerare we done?11:47
ubuntouristMuch to ponder / wade through but yes.11:47
lelkneralfarowonderful, well thanks everyone. talk to you all soon!11:48
jelknerzOnny, are you still here?12:03
zOnnyyes, jelkner12:04
jelknercan we meet with Daniela next Saturday?12:05
jelknerif ACC is open, i was thinking you and i can go there in morning12:06
zOnnysure , jelkner12:06
jelknerour plan will be to meet with her at 9:30 am12:06
jelknerif ACC is open, we can meet there12:06
jelknerif not, we can meet at my place12:06
zOnnyetheir one works for me , jelkner12:07
replaceafillzOnny, have a few minutes to chat?12:14
zOnnyhey replaceafill12:19
replaceafillhey zOnny, i just want to talk to you about your git process with the nea4or theme12:19
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replaceafillzOnny, should be briefly12:20
zOnnysure , replaceafill12:20
zOnnydo you want hang out ?12:20
replaceafillzOnny, you don't need to be creating merge requests in that project12:20
replaceafillzOnny, chat here is fine12:20
replaceafillzOnny, is there a reason you prefer that process?12:20
zOnnyreplaceafill , ok12:21
zOnnyI choose this way because I want to practice it , replaceafill12:22
replaceafillzOnny, oh ok12:22
zOnnyis it not the right way ? replaceafill12:22
replaceafillzOnny, it's *a* way12:23
replaceafillzOnny, all i'm saying is that you'll be working on that alone for now12:23
replaceafillzOnny, and you can push directly to the master branch12:23
replaceafillzOnny, that's all i had :)12:23
zOnnyalone ?  :( 12:24
zOnnythanks for checking me , replaceafill.12:25
zOnnyI am still struggling learning that part replaceafill12:26
replaceafillzOnny, it's fine, ask questions here when you're not sure about something12:26
zOnnyok, replaceafill12:27
zOnnybut once I push thsese branches to the master one , where it goes ? replaceafill12:28
zOnnyonly to the server ? replaceafill12:28
zOnnythat is not the production branch , right ? replaceafill12:28
zOnnyI mean that master is not the prod branch right ? replaceafill12:29
replaceafillzOnny, there is no prod branch yet12:29
replaceafillzOnny, and i usually just use master for production12:30
replaceafillzOnny, we don't even have a server with this theme set up12:30
replaceafillzOnny, we should set up a testing server first for jelkner to see and approve your changes12:30
zOnnysure , replaceafill12:31
zOnnyso, you  mean right now ? replaceafill12:32
replaceafillzOnny, no, but soon12:32
zOnnywhat is about the tendenci@localhost ? replaceafill12:32
replaceafillzOnny, i'll see if i can work on that today12:32
replaceafillzOnny, yeah, you could reuse that12:32
replaceafillzOnny, just be aware that you won't be able to push from there to gitlab12:33
replaceafillzOnny, but it's good enough for you to show your work12:33
replaceafillzOnny, you can go to the instance you were using12:33
replaceafillzOnny, then to the themes directory12:33
zOnnyright, replaceafill12:33
replaceafillzOnny, and git clone your theme12:33
replaceafillzOnny, and then set it as a default theme12:34
replaceafillzOnny, i *think* that'd work12:34
replaceafillzOnny, i'm not 100% percent though :)12:34
replaceafillzOnny, and as with your local development laptop12:34
replaceafillzOnny, i'd better advise to create a new tendenci instance12:34
replaceafillzOnny, just to avoid trouble in the long run12:35
replaceafillzOnny, i can create a separate user account for you in that server12:35
replaceafillzOnny, i'll try to do that and contact you at the end of the day with credentials for it12:36
zOnnywhich better works for you replaceafill, I will use it.12:38
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jelknerreplaceafill, do we still need to meet?14:16
replaceafilljelkner, eehh to talk ES finances?14:17
jelknerbasically, i sent all i can for this month14:17
replaceafilljelkner, i thought we were doing that after our IRC meeting14:17
replaceafilljelkner, sure i understand14:17
jelkneryes, but too many other things were going on14:17
replaceafilljelkner, i know14:18
replaceafilljelkner, i've informed mr_german and nrcerna the financial situation14:18
jelkneri think the best thing to do is wait until after our discussion next week14:18
replaceafilljelkner, sure14:18
replaceafilljelkner, one question though14:19
replaceafilljelkner, so far i've been calling the shots on mr_german's task14:19
replaceafilljelkner, mostly for tendenci theming14:19
replaceafilljelkner, i'm thinking you would want to save that money now for particular tasks14:19
replaceafilljelkner, like AEA, etc14:19
jelkneri'm not sure how we best navigate that challenge14:20
replaceafilljelkner, me taking on ORA tendenci theming?14:20
replaceafilljelkner, i mean, fully14:20
jelkneryou have the best view of product development from the technical point of view14:20
jelkneri know what i need the tool to do14:20
jelkneri like what we've been doing14:21
jelknerbasically, i speak up when i need something14:21
jelknerand you have the last word on who does it14:21
replaceafilljelkner, sure14:21
replaceafilljelkner, but are you ok with me being conservative from now on?14:21
replaceafilljelkner, i mean :)14:21
replaceafilljelkner, it's not like i've been wasting our money :D14:22
jelkneri don't know, my friend, i'm a radical ;-)14:22
jelkneryou can't spend what we don't have14:22
replaceafilljelkner, ok14:23
jelknerwhen we talk next week we can make it clear that folks who really want to be members of a coop will have to perhaps donate some time to finishing our product14:23
jelknersince without a product, our coop won't exist14:23
jelkneri will keep funding to the degree i can14:23
jelkneri've gotten more disciplined14:23
replaceafilljelkner, +114:23
jelkneri bring my lunch to school14:23
replaceafill(on donating time)14:23
jelkneri don't eat out much any more14:24
jelknerso that i can save funds for our project14:24
jelknerwe are making a lot of progress14:24
replaceafillACTION feels guilty...14:24
replaceafilli'll pay you with pupusas on august jelkner!14:25
replaceafilljelkner, about you not eating out much14:25
jelknerat Los Planes De Rendero?  You're on!14:26
jelknerno, my wife always complained i was eating out too much14:26
jelknerso this is leading to greater tranquility within our house14:27
jelknernice side benefit ;-)14:27
replaceafillit's a good habit (not eating out too much), i'm on a diet now and i've learned it14:27
jelkneranyway, we are making a lot of progress14:27
replaceafilljelkner, oh, you were not on that loop :(14:28
jelknerour tool is getting better, and we are moving forward organizationally14:28
replaceafilljelkner, Mike asked for the new event14:28
replaceafilljelkner, the March 12th meeting14:28
jelknerhaving Mike involved is important14:29
replaceafilljelkner, we delivered within the hour :)14:29
replaceafilljelkner, i know14:29
jelknerso we need to take good care of him14:29
jelknerone hour14:29
replaceafilljelkner, unfortunately i haven't heard back from him :(14:29
replaceafilljelkner, but it's a weekend, so...14:29
jelknerthat will surely earn his confidence in us14:29
jelkneranyway, as long as we delivered14:29
replaceafilljelkner, yep14:29
jelknerok, i have a lot to do, so i'm signing off for the day14:30
jelknertalk to you soon, my friend14:30
replaceafilljelkner, ok14:30
replaceafilljelkner, just fwd the loop14:30
replaceafilljelkner, thanks man14:30
replaceafilljelkner, later!14:30
jelknerACTION signs off irc for the day14:30
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