| *** jelkner has joined #novawebdev | 09:46 | |
| *** replaceafill has joined #novawebdev | 10:00 | |
| jelkner | Good morning, replaceafill! | 10:02 |
|---|---|---|
| replaceafill | good morning jelkner! | 10:02 |
| jelkner | !remind Getting on the tech-coops list: https://github.com/hng/tech-coops | 10:03 |
| Big_Brother | "Getting on the tech-coops list: https://github.com/hng/tech-coops" added to message queue | 10:03 |
| jelkner | !remind NOVAWeb tendenci instance for NOVALACIRO | 10:04 |
| Big_Brother | "NOVAWeb tendenci instance for NOVALACIRO" added to message queue | 10:04 |
| replaceafill | jelkner, is that the new name for Bravo? | 10:05 |
| jelkner | +1 | 10:05 |
| replaceafill | jelkner, got it | 10:05 |
| jelkner | Northern Virginia Latino Civil Rights Organization | 10:05 |
| replaceafill | jelkner, nice | 10:05 |
| jelkner | our organizer started yesterday | 10:05 |
| jelkner | and we had a really nice meeting with the board last night | 10:06 |
| *** mjsir911 has joined #novawebdev | 10:06 | |
| replaceafill | jelkner, what's the difference between an organizer and a manager/administrator? | 10:07 |
| jelkner | an organizer is tasked with organizing | 10:07 |
| jelkner | we want to build NOVALACIRO into a membership organization with an elected board | 10:08 |
| jelkner | by next Summer | 10:08 |
| replaceafill | jelkner, it's not like they are "running" the organization | 10:08 |
| jelkner | so Daniela's task is knocking on doors, going to meetings where people gather | 10:08 |
| jelkner | and listening to them about their concerns | 10:08 |
| replaceafill | jelkner, ah i see | 10:08 |
| jelkner | and developing a program of action to organize folks to meet their needs. | 10:09 |
| replaceafill | jelkner, interesting job :) | 10:09 |
| jelkner | we sent her to training last weekend at New Virginia Majority | 10:09 |
| jelkner | http://www.newvirginiamajority.org/organizing_academy?utm_campaign=organizeacademy&utm_medium=email&utm_source=newvirginiamajority | 10:11 |
| jelkner | She now knows the NVM folks pretty well. | 10:12 |
| jelkner | So when we build an AMS for NOVALACIRO, we can show it to TWU and NVM and say, "See, we could do this for you too!" | 10:12 |
| replaceafill | jelkner, wow, nice academy | 10:12 |
| replaceafill | jelkner, +1 | 10:13 |
| jelkner | It was great timing. | 10:13 |
| jelkner | Daniela left feeling totally inspired, and with a good sense of what she needs to do | 10:14 |
| jelkner | btw I had to get her a mobile phone for the organization, so she is now one of 2 people in Northern Virginia with an Ubuntu Touch phone ;-) | 10:14 |
| jelkner | 3 if we count mjsir911 | 10:15 |
| replaceafill | jelkner, oh i've been meaning to ask you, what kind of phone do you have? | 10:15 |
| jelkner | One Plus One | 10:15 |
| jelkner | Oh, and there are more possible synergies | 10:16 |
| jelkner | Daniela is skilled in graphics art | 10:16 |
| jelkner | https://marketplace.firefox.com/app/librifox-1/ | 10:16 |
| jelkner | She did the Logo for this. | 10:17 |
| jelkner | Which mjsir911 is busy porting to our new phones. | 10:17 |
| replaceafill | jelkner, ah | 10:17 |
| jelkner | with the help of alex hirshberg, who wrote it originally | 10:18 |
| replaceafill | jelkner, does the One Plus One comes with Ubuntu by default? | 10:18 |
| jelkner | no | 10:18 |
| replaceafill | jelkner, ah ok | 10:18 |
| jelkner | but it is one of the three officially supported phones | 10:18 |
| jelkner | https://ubports.com/devices/ready-to-use-devices | 10:19 |
| *** lelkneralfaro has joined #novawebdev | 10:24 | |
| jelkner | Good morning, lelkneralfaro! | 10:24 |
| *** mr_german has joined #novawebdev | 10:24 | |
| jelkner | Take a look at the log for the last few minutes | 10:24 |
| lelkneralfaro | morning jelkner | 10:24 |
| jelkner | replaceafill and i have been sharing info you will find relevant | 10:24 |
| mr_german | good morning | 10:25 |
| jelkner | good morning, mr_german! | 10:25 |
| lelkneralfaro | jelkner, that's great about Daniela | 10:26 |
| jelkner | it sure it | 10:26 |
| jelkner | she is off to a wonderful start | 10:26 |
| jelkner | she has skills, energy, and enthusiasm | 10:27 |
| lelkneralfaro | !remind update on tendenci plan | 10:27 |
| Big_Brother | "update on tendenci plan" added to message queue | 10:27 |
| *** nrcerna has joined #novawebdev | 10:27 | |
| jelkner | good morning, nrcerna! | 10:27 |
| nrcerna | Good morning! jelkner | 10:28 |
| *** zOnny has joined #novawebdev | 10:29 | |
| jelkner | good morning, zOnny! | 10:29 |
| Big_Brother | Should we be setting up our own internal tendenci for our use and customer support? | 10:30 |
| lelkneralfaro | good morning everyone! | 10:30 |
| zOnny | good morning jelkner | 10:30 |
| lelkneralfaro | okay from the top | 10:30 |
| replaceafill | good morning everybody | 10:30 |
| lelkneralfaro | jelkner, looks like your writing... | 10:30 |
| jelkner | it is | 10:30 |
| lelkneralfaro | jelkner, want to elaborate? | 10:30 |
| lelkneralfaro | jelkner, I've thought about the question myself | 10:30 |
| jelkner | what needs elaborating? | 10:30 |
| jelkner | the discussion centers around the cost (time) vs. benefits of doing that | 10:31 |
| jelkner | maybe replaceafill could weigh in | 10:31 |
| lelkneralfaro | jelkner, that's the elaboration | 10:31 |
| replaceafill | jelkner, what do we need it for exactly? | 10:31 |
| replaceafill | jelkner, as a contact management system? | 10:32 |
| jelkner | well, i was thinking that we would use: | 10:32 |
| jelkner | 1. voting (as we become a democratic workers coop we'll be doing more of that) | 10:32 |
| jelkner | 2. communications (mailing lists for specific customer service groups like AEA etc. | 10:33 |
| jelkner | by dogfooding, it would help us all learn our main product too | 10:33 |
| replaceafill | jelkner, ah i see | 10:33 |
| jelkner | those are my motivations | 10:33 |
| jelkner | not sure if they are on target or not | 10:33 |
| jelkner | that's why i'm bringing it up | 10:34 |
| replaceafill | jelkner, so we add customers to their specific mailing list and we ask them to write to that address, right? | 10:35 |
| *** ubuntourist has joined #novawebdev | 10:35 | |
| jelkner | +1 | 10:35 |
| replaceafill | jelkner, got it | 10:35 |
| replaceafill | jelkner, can you describe voting a bit more? | 10:35 |
| replaceafill | jelkner, i mean, what kind of voting do you see us doing internally? | 10:35 |
| jelkner | perhaps lelkneralfaro could take that on | 10:35 |
| jelkner | yes, absolutely | 10:35 |
| lelkneralfaro | jelkner, well I think it's premature | 10:35 |
| lelkneralfaro | jelkner, on the voting | 10:36 |
| lelkneralfaro | jelkner, any voting we may due in the near future is going to be very simple | 10:36 |
| lelkneralfaro | jelkner, if we want to take on another member for example | 10:36 |
| lelkneralfaro | jelkner, or vote on taking on a client | 10:36 |
| jelkner | i understand, so the question is, even though it is more tech then we need, which normally argues against using it | 10:37 |
| jelkner | is the added benefit of learning our product a counter weight to that argument in this case? | 10:37 |
| lelkneralfaro | jelkner, for me I don't think it's going to give me any more time to practice as a user than the testing instances would | 10:38 |
| jelkner | it is a testing instance | 10:38 |
| lelkneralfaro | jelkner, well not a significant amount of time | 10:38 |
| jelkner | with a benefit of it being meaningful | 10:38 |
| jelkner | in fact, we could be using now | 10:38 |
| jelkner | after we have a 10 minutes discussion of "Should we create our own tendenci instance?" | 10:39 |
| lelkneralfaro | jelkner, if we were using to communicate with customers it wouldn't be a testing instance in the way I'm thinking of the temporary setups that replaceafill makes | 10:39 |
| jelkner | we could vote on that | 10:39 |
| replaceafill | jelkner, i think it's good that voting seems premature because we have the second point figured out, the first one not so much | 10:39 |
| jelkner | ok, i'm done on this | 10:39 |
| jelkner | just wanted to bring it up | 10:39 |
| lelkneralfaro | I vote no | 10:39 |
| replaceafill | +0 from me | 10:39 |
| lelkneralfaro | next item | 10:40 |
| replaceafill | not that +0 is different from -0 :) | 10:40 |
| ubuntourist | -1 | 10:40 |
| lelkneralfaro | the tech coop list | 10:40 |
| lelkneralfaro | jelkner, should we first become a coop? | 10:41 |
| lelkneralfaro | jelkner, legally speaking | 10:41 |
| lelkneralfaro | jelkner, or do you think it doesn't matter? | 10:41 |
| jelkner | i don't know, that's why i'm bringing it up | 10:41 |
| lelkneralfaro | jelkner, I don't like the idea of portraying ourselves as something we aren't yet | 10:41 |
| jelkner | we have these chicken and egg questions a lot | 10:41 |
| ubuntourist | (Which, if we go back in e-mail, I have mentioned... But I think the reason we didn't do it then is exactly the reason you're raising.) | 10:41 |
| jelkner | if we don't get ourselves "out there", we won't succeed | 10:42 |
| jelkner | that's what marketing is | 10:42 |
| lelkneralfaro | jelkner, well we should become a coop | 10:42 |
| jelkner | and often times the need to meet some deadline or goal is what pushes things forward | 10:42 |
| lelkneralfaro | jelkner, I'll work on that today. been focusing more on collecting money and then the business plan this past week | 10:43 |
| jelkner | things are so interrelated | 10:43 |
| jelkner | we will be selling ourselves as a coop | 10:44 |
| jelkner | so collecting money and becoming a coop are two sides of the same coin | 10:44 |
| lelkneralfaro | huh? | 10:44 |
| lelkneralfaro | I literally mean collecting money | 10:44 |
| jelkner | i understand | 10:45 |
| jelkner | i'm just saying that all of this needs to proceed in some kind of parallel fashion | 10:45 |
| *** nrcerna has joined #novawebdev | 10:45 | |
| jelkner | you can only do one thing at a time, but the art of figuring out how to task switch and balance things is what this is all about | 10:46 |
| lelkneralfaro | yes, things are moving forward | 10:46 |
| ubuntourist | (FWIW, I also mentioned The Internet of Ownership platform co-op directory - https://ioo.coop/submit/ on Jan 1, 2017.) | 10:46 |
| lelkneralfaro | so I think we should legally establish ourselves a cooperative | 10:47 |
| jelkner | +1 | 10:47 |
| lelkneralfaro | I'll get the paperwork in order for that this week | 10:47 |
| lelkneralfaro | and then we can get on directories | 10:47 |
| jelkner | excellent | 10:47 |
| lelkneralfaro | :) | 10:47 |
| lelkneralfaro | next... | 10:47 |
| lelkneralfaro | NovaWeb tendenci instance for | 10:47 |
| lelkneralfaro | NOVALACIRO | 10:48 |
| lelkneralfaro | jelkner? | 10:48 |
| lelkneralfaro | is that yours? | 10:48 |
| jelkner | yup, i only want to inform folks | 10:48 |
| jelkner | briefly | 10:48 |
| jelkner | NOVALACIRO is the Northern Virginia Latino Civil Rights Organization | 10:49 |
| jelkner | which BRAVO turned into last night | 10:49 |
| jelkner | we have an organizer who started yesterday | 10:49 |
| jelkner | last week she went to a 3 day training with New Virginia Majority | 10:49 |
| jelkner | i would like zOnny to be primarily responsible for working with her on the website | 10:50 |
| jelkner | we want it to be a model to show NVM when we pitch our services to them in a month or so | 10:50 |
| jelkner | that's all i have on that | 10:50 |
| zOnny | sure, jelkner | 10:50 |
| lelkneralfaro | cool | 10:50 |
| lelkneralfaro | okay then final point | 10:50 |
| lelkneralfaro | update on tendenci sales plan | 10:51 |
| lelkneralfaro | so after hacking away at the business plan | 10:52 |
| lelkneralfaro | I think that I've realized we may want to take another approach | 10:52 |
| lelkneralfaro | the business plan is used mainly for attracting investors | 10:52 |
| lelkneralfaro | it largely has to do with market research | 10:52 |
| lelkneralfaro | and competitor research, and descriptions of how you want be undercut, etc... | 10:53 |
| lelkneralfaro | what I think that we are doing is more about targeting specific customers, not investors, and proposing to them that we can service their technological needs | 10:53 |
| lelkneralfaro | so whatever documents we write up, need to be more tailored to the person we are reaching out to | 10:54 |
| lelkneralfaro | so Rand may want to see one thing | 10:54 |
| lelkneralfaro | the NEA or other unions another (more like a project plan that ubuntourist has) | 10:55 |
| lelkneralfaro | so we need to be clear on what we need to gather and then set up meeting dates with the key decision makers for funding. | 10:55 |
| ubuntourist | Sorry. Had to take care of HacDC business. Catching up. | 10:56 |
| lelkneralfaro | as far as providing service to a group like NEA, the costs of operations are going to be based on their needs | 10:56 |
| lelkneralfaro | so we would have to be working with them to come up with our numbers. | 10:57 |
| ubuntourist | "The Art of the Deal" ;-) | 10:58 |
| lelkneralfaro | so I think the point right now is to try to get direct communication with the potential funders and customers, and gather what we need for them. | 10:58 |
| ubuntourist | But seriously... Looking at GitHub / GitLab logs may be a good way to gauge speed of progress. Armed with that, one can project (realistically) how long something will take. | 10:59 |
| ubuntourist | And we have ideas about our hourly rates. So, those together should be what we approach potential clients with, and if necessary, negotiate or abandon from there. | 11:00 |
| lelkneralfaro | ubuntourist, for sure, but in the case of the NEA, we aren't sure about what size and scope of their project would be. Our staffing plan and timeline would have to be based on their projected wants | 11:01 |
| jelkner | lelkneralfaro, i want to let you finish your presentation, and then i'd like to comment | 11:01 |
| lelkneralfaro | correct me if i am wrong replaceafill, but after speaking a few weeks ago I don't think right now we have the capacity to provide service to a larger organization | 11:02 |
| ubuntourist | lelkneralfaro, Yeah, being able to ask all the right questions about what a client wants / needs is a good place to start. Sorry. Didn't mean to interrupt. | 11:02 |
| lelkneralfaro | no problem at all ubuntourist | 11:02 |
| lelkneralfaro | that's it for me | 11:02 |
| replaceafill | lelkneralfaro, right | 11:02 |
| jelkner | actually, ubuntourist, i'm glad your made your interjection about "The Art of the Deal" | 11:03 |
| replaceafill | lelkneralfaro, as you said, it'll depend on what they'll need | 11:03 |
| jelkner | it is important to me to keep what we are trying to do at a deep level in mind | 11:03 |
| jelkner | The Art of the Deal is about becoming a shark | 11:03 |
| jelkner | and turning other human beings into shark meat | 11:03 |
| jelkner | if y'all decide you want to do that, i'm outta here | 11:04 |
| jelkner | here is what i think lelkneralfaro should be doing: | 11:04 |
| jelkner | 1. Looking at online examples of what other coops consider a "business plan" | 11:04 |
| jelkner | 2. choosing the best of what is available from open source examples, create a gitlab repo with ours (even as a work in progress) | 11:05 |
| jelkner | 3. invite the rest of us to hack on it with him | 11:05 |
| jelkner | we need a statement of our vision and mission | 11:06 |
| lelkneralfaro | jelkner, I have that | 11:06 |
| jelkner | is it on gitlab? | 11:06 |
| lelkneralfaro | jelkner, at least a tentative one, that others can review | 11:06 |
| lelkneralfaro | jelkner, no not on git lab | 11:06 |
| lelkneralfaro | jelkner, google doc | 11:06 |
| jelkner | oh, ok | 11:06 |
| lelkneralfaro | jelkner, I can share now | 11:06 |
| lelkneralfaro | jelkner, and put it in the shared folder | 11:06 |
| jelkner | our goal should be to make it public | 11:07 |
| lelkneralfaro | when ready yea | 11:07 |
| jelkner | but we could hack on it together first | 11:07 |
| jelkner | "ready" is an interesting point | 11:07 |
| jelkner | it needs perhaps to be "ready enough" | 11:07 |
| lelkneralfaro | jelkner, that's what I mean | 11:07 |
| jelkner | but not "done" in any sense | 11:07 |
| jelkner | cool | 11:07 |
| lelkneralfaro | jelkner, but the point I'm trying to make is one about specific types of documents | 11:08 |
| jelkner | lelkneralfaro, have you looked at the links to "business plans" that ubuntourist shared with us? | 11:08 |
| lelkneralfaro | jelkner, no, I've looked at others | 11:08 |
| ubuntourist | Can we -- and I do include me in that -- pool some cash and send lelkneralfaro on a learning expedition to a conference to both network and learn? (Limited funds, so the choice of which conference would need to be carefully made. But maybe Platform Co-op.) | 11:08 |
| jelkner | ubuntourist has a few open source ones that he is familiar with | 11:08 |
| jelkner | you should start with those | 11:09 |
| ubuntourist | "Fact finding mission" ;-) | 11:09 |
| jelkner | since they are most closely aligned with our goals of transparency and collaboration | 11:09 |
| lelkneralfaro | jelkner, I agree those are good examples | 11:09 |
| lelkneralfaro | jelkner, but the point here I'm trying to make doesn't have much to do with values | 11:10 |
| jelkner | keep it simple and don't over think this if you can | 11:10 |
| lelkneralfaro | jelkner, it's more about financials | 11:10 |
| lelkneralfaro | jelkner, I'm not overthinking it lol | 11:10 |
| lelkneralfaro | jelkner, I'm trying to keep it simple | 11:10 |
| jelkner | so, you just need something detailed enough (and public, even on our website) | 11:10 |
| lelkneralfaro | ubuntourist, a learning/networking thing might be in order soon | 11:11 |
| jelkner | that we can show to NVM, and you can show to Rand's folks | 11:11 |
| jelkner | to take the next steps in getting them to support us | 11:11 |
| jelkner | i believe they want to know that we: | 11:11 |
| jelkner | 1. are serious enough to do what it takes to stay around and struggle | 11:11 |
| lelkneralfaro | https://docs.google.com/document/d/1KeffxNst4Qrzo26AfDv4BbAf5r52dRdMmbruZ6B29rA/edit | 11:12 |
| jelkner | 2. are skilled enough to be able to make a go of producing a viable product | 11:12 |
| lelkneralfaro | jelkner, take a look at this | 11:12 |
| jelkner | ACTION goes to look | 11:12 |
| lelkneralfaro | and other interested parties | 11:12 |
| jelkner | ok, something real to chew on! | 11:13 |
| jelkner | we should go through this together first | 11:13 |
| jelkner | and then you should show it to folks like Rand. | 11:13 |
| lelkneralfaro | jelkner, yes | 11:13 |
| jelkner | btw. on a practical point, we are 15 minutes over time | 11:14 |
| jelkner | can we end the meeting and invite folks who want to to stay? | 11:14 |
| lelkneralfaro | for sure | 11:15 |
| jelkner | since we planned to continue in any case. | 11:15 |
| jelkner | cool | 11:15 |
| lelkneralfaro | ACTION drops the bag of gravel | 11:15 |
| lelkneralfaro | sorry for going on too long everyone | 11:15 |
| replaceafill | np lelkneralfaro | 11:15 |
| lelkneralfaro | in order to understand the business part we're going to need to keep talking | 11:15 |
| lelkneralfaro | so if anyone is interested please stick around | 11:15 |
| replaceafill | jelkner, we were supposed to talk to the Guanaco team at this time | 11:16 |
| lelkneralfaro | but if you want to go now, if you want to know more details or want more explanations | 11:16 |
| replaceafill | jelkner, should we reschedule that? | 11:16 |
| lelkneralfaro | replaceafill, jelkner i'm available later on today talk about this | 11:16 |
| jelkner | replaceafill, i'd like to ask something of the Guanaco team while we are here now. | 11:16 |
| jelkner | since our discussion of both coop and voting early this meeting brings up real questions about our practice | 11:17 |
| jelkner | look back at who voted | 11:17 |
| jelkner | i would suggest we have a task ahead to help folks feel entitled to an opinion | 11:18 |
| jelkner | so that people here who don't normally vote would feel like they have a right to | 11:18 |
| jelkner | we need to define who a voting member is | 11:18 |
| jelkner | and what the obligations and privileges of membership are | 11:19 |
| jelkner | that is what becoming a coop means, yes? | 11:19 |
| jelkner | lelkneralfaro, you and i have discussed this often | 11:19 |
| jelkner | we will only be able to really figure it out in practice | 11:19 |
| jelkner | so we should be intentional about developing our practice | 11:20 |
| replaceafill | jelkner, i talked about this (feeling ownership) with nrcerna and mr_german last week | 11:20 |
| jelkner | and what did they say? | 11:20 |
| replaceafill | they're here :) | 11:20 |
| ubuntourist | replaceafill, ;-) | 11:21 |
| replaceafill | nrcerna, mr_german thoughts on jelkner's comments? | 11:21 |
| jelkner | true, but they tend not to speak up, and i didn't want to put them on the spot. | 11:21 |
| replaceafill | jelkner, i think we should put them on the spot, that's responsibility they need to take | 11:22 |
| nrcerna | As replaceafill said , he talked with mr_german and I | 11:22 |
| nrcerna | I believe we can take more responsability on that and give our opinion | 11:23 |
| nrcerna | We have to do that often, (I mean , about talk and vote, and other coop things) | 11:24 |
| nrcerna | Maybe in my case, sometimes i have been lost in context | 11:25 |
| jelkner | nrcerna, do you feel a desire to be part of a cooperative? | 11:25 |
| nrcerna | Yes, i do jelkner | 11:25 |
| jelkner | so, can i ask your opinion on the following proposal to lelkneralfaro: | 11:25 |
| nrcerna | Ok | 11:26 |
| jelkner | 1. he spend the coming week defining better what a coop means, both legally and in terms of function | 11:26 |
| jelkner | 2. He will lead a discussion next sunday on what obligations and privileges coop membership entails | 11:27 |
| jelkner | 3. we will all get a chance to react and state whether we want to be part of something like that | 11:28 |
| jelkner | Does that sound like a good use of his time, nrcerna (and others)? | 11:28 |
| ubuntourist | I'm not sure IRC is the best medium... Perhaps augmented / supplemented with a doc / presentation that can be previewed before-hand? | 11:29 |
| jelkner | +1 | 11:29 |
| nrcerna | I think yes it its jelkner | 11:29 |
| jelkner | lelkneralfaro, what do you think? | 11:30 |
| lelkneralfaro | lelkneralfaro, yes for sure | 11:30 |
| ubuntourist | (I'll just need to remember to preview.) | 11:30 |
| jelkner | we should get email reminder to do that, ubuntourist | 11:31 |
| lelkneralfaro | ubuntourist, yes I agree you need a presentation | 11:31 |
| jelkner | lelkneralfaro, do you have anything else you wanted to talk about now? | 11:31 |
| lelkneralfaro | one thing | 11:31 |
| jelkner | shoot | 11:31 |
| lelkneralfaro | ubuntourist, I just wanted to acknowledge your point about he networking information gathering mission | 11:32 |
| lelkneralfaro | ubuntourist, we are approaching the point where I think it is in order | 11:32 |
| lelkneralfaro | ubuntourist, so thanks for offering to help financially | 11:32 |
| lelkneralfaro | ubuntourist, but we'll have to do some thinking on what the mission entails first | 11:33 |
| ubuntourist | lelkneralfaro, Yeah. Since I'd be throwing money at the problem, DEFINITELY. ;-) | 11:33 |
| jelkner | speaking of that, lelkneralfaro, to have an organization based on equality and democracy | 11:33 |
| jelkner | we all need to contribute | 11:33 |
| replaceafill | +1 | 11:34 |
| lelkneralfaro | we'll have to come up with terms of fair contribution | 11:34 |
| jelkner | though there needs to a way for members to contribute either time or money (or both) depending on the resources they have available | 11:34 |
| jelkner | and we really need to be come a legal coop | 11:34 |
| jelkner | so that folks who contribute have legal ownership | 11:35 |
| jelkner | that's what a coop is | 11:35 |
| lelkneralfaro | +1 | 11:35 |
| lelkneralfaro | that'll be my task for this week | 11:35 |
| jelkner | cool, we are making good progress | 11:35 |
| nrcerna | Sorry to interumpt, is not graphic desing at bussines plan? | 11:36 |
| jelkner | good question, nrcerna | 11:36 |
| jelkner | this is my understanding (though we have been developing this as we go) | 11:37 |
| lelkneralfaro | nrcerna, thanks for asking. the way I think about it we have two different business ideas we are pursuing, the graphic design/web development | 11:38 |
| lelkneralfaro | jelkner, sorry... go ahead | 11:38 |
| nrcerna | I think it was part of "Front end" | 11:38 |
| jelkner | the two things are very interrelated | 11:38 |
| jelkner | yes, nrcerna, we can't offer a backend product without beautiful design on the front end | 11:38 |
| jelkner | on the other hand, without backend chops we can't charge enough to be sustain us | 11:39 |
| jelkner | so we need both | 11:39 |
| jelkner | we are finding that in practice | 11:39 |
| jelkner | as we work on our product | 11:39 |
| jelkner | the need to make the UI both look good and work well is apparent. | 11:40 |
| jelkner | what we end up doing will in large part be determined by who we can get to pay us to do things | 11:40 |
| jelkner | but you are on target bringing this up for discussion | 11:41 |
| jelkner | since how we market ourselves will impact who we get as customers | 11:41 |
| jelkner | my focus of late has been on the AMS aspects of our project | 11:42 |
| jelkner | but each of our showcase projects needs beautiful design | 11:42 |
| jelkner | ACTION is done his long winded explaination | 11:43 |
| nrcerna | I see, thanks jelkner for make it clear. | 11:43 |
| ubuntourist | AMS? Automated Management Systems? | 11:44 |
| jelkner | Association Management System | 11:44 |
| jelkner | it is what tendenci calls itself | 11:44 |
| ubuntourist | jelkner, Ah. Thanks. I lose track. | 11:44 |
| jelkner | a rough equivalent of CMS | 11:44 |
| jelkner | but with a different emphasis | 11:45 |
| jelkner | oops | 11:45 |
| jelkner | i meant CRM | 11:45 |
| jelkner | not CMS | 11:45 |
| jelkner | these acronyms will be the end of us ;-) | 11:45 |
| ubuntourist | I was thinking the same thing. The Sound Advice project uses VCS a lot... | 11:46 |
| ubuntourist | ... and it has nothing to do with version control systems, It's Virtual Control Surface. Gah! | 11:46 |
| jelkner | okie dokie | 11:47 |
| jelkner | are we done? | 11:47 |
| lelkneralfaro | yes | 11:47 |
| ubuntourist | Much to ponder / wade through but yes. | 11:47 |
| lelkneralfaro | wonderful, well thanks everyone. talk to you all soon! | 11:48 |
| jelkner | zOnny, are you still here? | 12:03 |
| zOnny | yes, jelkner | 12:04 |
| jelkner | can we meet with Daniela next Saturday? | 12:05 |
| jelkner | if ACC is open, i was thinking you and i can go there in morning | 12:06 |
| zOnny | sure , jelkner | 12:06 |
| jelkner | excellent | 12:06 |
| jelkner | our plan will be to meet with her at 9:30 am | 12:06 |
| jelkner | if ACC is open, we can meet there | 12:06 |
| jelkner | if not, we can meet at my place | 12:06 |
| zOnny | etheir one works for me , jelkner | 12:07 |
| replaceafill | zOnny, have a few minutes to chat? | 12:14 |
| zOnny | hey replaceafill | 12:19 |
| replaceafill | hey zOnny, i just want to talk to you about your git process with the nea4or theme | 12:19 |
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| replaceafill | zOnny, should be briefly | 12:20 |
| zOnny | sure , replaceafill | 12:20 |
| zOnny | do you want hang out ? | 12:20 |
| replaceafill | zOnny, you don't need to be creating merge requests in that project | 12:20 |
| replaceafill | zOnny, chat here is fine | 12:20 |
| replaceafill | zOnny, is there a reason you prefer that process? | 12:20 |
| zOnny | replaceafill , ok | 12:21 |
| zOnny | I choose this way because I want to practice it , replaceafill | 12:22 |
| replaceafill | zOnny, oh ok | 12:22 |
| zOnny | is it not the right way ? replaceafill | 12:22 |
| replaceafill | zOnny, it's *a* way | 12:23 |
| replaceafill | zOnny, all i'm saying is that you'll be working on that alone for now | 12:23 |
| replaceafill | zOnny, and you can push directly to the master branch | 12:23 |
| replaceafill | zOnny, that's all i had :) | 12:23 |
| zOnny | alone ? :( | 12:24 |
| zOnny | thanks for checking me , replaceafill. | 12:25 |
| replaceafill | :) | 12:25 |
| zOnny | I am still struggling learning that part replaceafill | 12:26 |
| replaceafill | zOnny, it's fine, ask questions here when you're not sure about something | 12:26 |
| zOnny | ok, replaceafill | 12:27 |
| zOnny | but once I push thsese branches to the master one , where it goes ? replaceafill | 12:28 |
| zOnny | only to the server ? replaceafill | 12:28 |
| zOnny | that is not the production branch , right ? replaceafill | 12:28 |
| zOnny | I mean that master is not the prod branch right ? replaceafill | 12:29 |
| replaceafill | zOnny, there is no prod branch yet | 12:29 |
| replaceafill | zOnny, and i usually just use master for production | 12:30 |
| replaceafill | zOnny, we don't even have a server with this theme set up | 12:30 |
| replaceafill | zOnny, we should set up a testing server first for jelkner to see and approve your changes | 12:30 |
| zOnny | sure , replaceafill | 12:31 |
| zOnny | so, you mean right now ? replaceafill | 12:32 |
| replaceafill | zOnny, no, but soon | 12:32 |
| zOnny | what is about the tendenci@localhost ? replaceafill | 12:32 |
| replaceafill | zOnny, i'll see if i can work on that today | 12:32 |
| replaceafill | zOnny, yeah, you could reuse that | 12:32 |
| replaceafill | zOnny, just be aware that you won't be able to push from there to gitlab | 12:33 |
| replaceafill | zOnny, but it's good enough for you to show your work | 12:33 |
| replaceafill | zOnny, you can go to the instance you were using | 12:33 |
| replaceafill | zOnny, then to the themes directory | 12:33 |
| zOnny | right, replaceafill | 12:33 |
| replaceafill | zOnny, and git clone your theme | 12:33 |
| replaceafill | zOnny, and then set it as a default theme | 12:34 |
| replaceafill | zOnny, i *think* that'd work | 12:34 |
| replaceafill | zOnny, i'm not 100% percent though :) | 12:34 |
| replaceafill | zOnny, and as with your local development laptop | 12:34 |
| replaceafill | zOnny, i'd better advise to create a new tendenci instance | 12:34 |
| replaceafill | zOnny, just to avoid trouble in the long run | 12:35 |
| replaceafill | zOnny, i can create a separate user account for you in that server | 12:35 |
| replaceafill | zOnny, i'll try to do that and contact you at the end of the day with credentials for it | 12:36 |
| zOnny | which better works for you replaceafill, I will use it. | 12:38 |
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| jelkner | replaceafill, do we still need to meet? | 14:16 |
| replaceafill | jelkner, eehh to talk ES finances? | 14:17 |
| jelkner | yes | 14:17 |
| jelkner | basically, i sent all i can for this month | 14:17 |
| replaceafill | jelkner, i thought we were doing that after our IRC meeting | 14:17 |
| replaceafill | jelkner, sure i understand | 14:17 |
| jelkner | yes, but too many other things were going on | 14:17 |
| replaceafill | jelkner, i know | 14:18 |
| replaceafill | jelkner, i've informed mr_german and nrcerna the financial situation | 14:18 |
| jelkner | i think the best thing to do is wait until after our discussion next week | 14:18 |
| replaceafill | jelkner, sure | 14:18 |
| replaceafill | jelkner, one question though | 14:19 |
| jelkner | shoot | 14:19 |
| replaceafill | jelkner, so far i've been calling the shots on mr_german's task | 14:19 |
| replaceafill | jelkner, mostly for tendenci theming | 14:19 |
| replaceafill | jelkner, i'm thinking you would want to save that money now for particular tasks | 14:19 |
| replaceafill | jelkner, like AEA, etc | 14:19 |
| jelkner | i'm not sure how we best navigate that challenge | 14:20 |
| replaceafill | jelkner, me taking on ORA tendenci theming? | 14:20 |
| replaceafill | jelkner, i mean, fully | 14:20 |
| jelkner | you have the best view of product development from the technical point of view | 14:20 |
| jelkner | i know what i need the tool to do | 14:20 |
| jelkner | i like what we've been doing | 14:21 |
| jelkner | basically, i speak up when i need something | 14:21 |
| jelkner | and you have the last word on who does it | 14:21 |
| replaceafill | jelkner, sure | 14:21 |
| replaceafill | jelkner, but are you ok with me being conservative from now on? | 14:21 |
| replaceafill | jelkner, i mean :) | 14:21 |
| replaceafill | jelkner, it's not like i've been wasting our money :D | 14:22 |
| jelkner | i don't know, my friend, i'm a radical ;-) | 14:22 |
| jelkner | you can't spend what we don't have | 14:22 |
| replaceafill | jelkner, ok | 14:23 |
| jelkner | when we talk next week we can make it clear that folks who really want to be members of a coop will have to perhaps donate some time to finishing our product | 14:23 |
| jelkner | since without a product, our coop won't exist | 14:23 |
| jelkner | i will keep funding to the degree i can | 14:23 |
| jelkner | i've gotten more disciplined | 14:23 |
| replaceafill | jelkner, +1 | 14:23 |
| jelkner | i bring my lunch to school | 14:23 |
| replaceafill | (on donating time) | 14:23 |
| jelkner | i don't eat out much any more | 14:24 |
| jelkner | so that i can save funds for our project | 14:24 |
| jelkner | we are making a lot of progress | 14:24 |
| replaceafill | ACTION feels guilty... | 14:24 |
| jelkner | why? | 14:25 |
| replaceafill | i'll pay you with pupusas on august jelkner! | 14:25 |
| replaceafill | jelkner, about you not eating out much | 14:25 |
| jelkner | at Los Planes De Rendero? You're on! | 14:26 |
| replaceafill | :)) | 14:26 |
| jelkner | no, my wife always complained i was eating out too much | 14:26 |
| jelkner | so this is leading to greater tranquility within our house | 14:27 |
| jelkner | nice side benefit ;-) | 14:27 |
| replaceafill | it's a good habit (not eating out too much), i'm on a diet now and i've learned it | 14:27 |
| jelkner | +1 | 14:27 |
| jelkner | anyway, we are making a lot of progress | 14:27 |
| replaceafill | jelkner, oh, you were not on that loop :( | 14:28 |
| replaceafill | jelkner, https://ourrevolutionarlington.us/events.php | 14:28 |
| jelkner | our tool is getting better, and we are moving forward organizationally | 14:28 |
| replaceafill | jelkner, Mike asked for the new event | 14:28 |
| replaceafill | jelkner, the March 12th meeting | 14:28 |
| jelkner | nice! | 14:28 |
| jelkner | having Mike involved is important | 14:29 |
| replaceafill | jelkner, we delivered within the hour :) | 14:29 |
| replaceafill | jelkner, i know | 14:29 |
| jelkner | so we need to take good care of him | 14:29 |
| jelkner | WOW! | 14:29 |
| jelkner | one hour | 14:29 |
| replaceafill | jelkner, unfortunately i haven't heard back from him :( | 14:29 |
| replaceafill | jelkner, but it's a weekend, so... | 14:29 |
| jelkner | that will surely earn his confidence in us | 14:29 |
| jelkner | anyway, as long as we delivered | 14:29 |
| replaceafill | jelkner, yep | 14:29 |
| jelkner | sweet | 14:29 |
| jelkner | ok, i have a lot to do, so i'm signing off for the day | 14:30 |
| jelkner | talk to you soon, my friend | 14:30 |
| replaceafill | jelkner, ok | 14:30 |
| replaceafill | jelkner, just fwd the loop | 14:30 |
| replaceafill | jelkner, thanks man | 14:30 |
| replaceafill | jelkner, later! | 14:30 |
| jelkner | ACTION signs off irc for the day | 14:30 |
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