IRC log of #novawebdev for Sunday, 2018-03-11

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lelkneralfaro!remind Discussion of meaning of coop membership09:29
Big_Brother"Discussion of meaning of coop membership" added to message queue09:29
Big_BrotherWhere do we host NOVALACIRO website?09:30
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zOnnyuhmmm ? Where is everyone ?09:33
zOnnyUps , I see :) 09:38
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jelknerGood morning zOnny and lelkneralfaro!09:58
jelknerlelkneralfaro, thanks for thinking of the email to the folks in El Salvador09:58
jelkneronly problem is, they may not see it in time09:58
jelknerbtw, lelkneralfaro, if this is an undue hardship on team guanaco, perhaps we could reschedule next week to 11:30 am our time, which would mean no change for them.  thoughts?10:07
lelkneralfarojelkner, I'm happy to reschedule for 11:30 AM next week and on10:19
lelkneralfarojelkner, we'll see who's here in 10 minutres10:19
lelkneralfarojelkner, *minutes10:19
lelkneralfarojelkner, also, I saw that big_brother went off an hour ago10:20
zOnnygood morning jelkner10:20
mjsir911oh hes back10:20
Big_BrotherAvailable commands: !help, !ping, !remind10:20
mjsir911oh darn does big brother do dayligh savings10:20
jelkneri don't know, mjsir911, he's your creation ;-)10:22
mjsir911yea seems it's not doing daylight savings10:22
Big_BrotherWhere do we host NOVALACIRO website?10:22
Big_BrotherWhere do we host NOVALACIRO website?10:23
mjsir911somethings definitely broken10:23
jelknerso don't do anything yet, since if we agree to move to 11:30 am, you won't have anything to fix :-)10:23
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Big_BrotherWhere do we host NOVALACIRO website?10:30
jelknerGood morning, DVM folks10:31
lelkneralfarohey good morning 10:31
lelkneralfarojelkner, what do you all think we should do?10:31
lelkneralfarojelkner, I'll be around all day and can return at 11:30 AM10:31
jelknerWe can't properly discuss either of these items without replaceafull10:31
jelknerlet's check back then10:31
lelkneralfarozOnny, will you be there?10:31
jelknerwhat do we all think about changing to 11:30 am?10:32
zOnnyHello World!10:32
lelkneralfarozOnny, :)10:32
zOnnyyep, lelkneralfaro10:32
lelkneralfarozOnny, cool. in that case, I'm going to rest for an hour more10:32
jelknersee y'all in an hour10:32
lelkneralfarodaylight saving's time is cutting into my beauty sleep10:33
mjsir911will fix the bot10:33
jelknerit shows, lelkneralfaro ;-)10:33
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replaceafillouch, the usual DST fiasco...11:26
jelkneryup, replaceafill 11:29
jelknergood morning11:29
Big_BrotherWhere do we host NOVALACIRO website?11:30
replaceafillgood morning jelkner11:30
lelkneralfaroGood morning everyone!11:30
jelknergood morning!11:30
replaceafillgood mornig everybody11:30
lelkneralfarolet's begin11:30
lelkneralfarofirst item: where to host NOVALACIRO site?11:31
jelknerbefore that, lelkneralfaro, we agreed to move our meeting to 11:30 am, yes11:31
lelkneralfarojelkner, fair enough11:31
jelknerthat won't effect folks in el salvador11:31
lelkneralfarojelkner, yes, that works for me11:31
jelknerbut just so we can be clear for next week11:31
jelknerzOnny said yes, too11:31
jelknermjsir911, does that work for you?11:32
lelkneralfaroand we'll have to check in with ubuntourist11:32
mjsir911yea I'm fine with that11:32
nrcernaHello everyone!11:32
mjsir911the bot has already made the transition11:32
jelkneri can't imagine ubuntourist will mind an extra hour of sleep! ;-)11:32
jelknerok, agreed11:32
jelknerthe next item is really for replaceafill to tell us11:33
jelknerzOnny and i had a great day yesterday with daniela11:33
replaceafillis there a problem getting a new VPS for NOVALACIRO?11:33
jelknernovalaciro's new organizer11:33
jelknerno, there isn't11:33
jelknerwho would set that up?11:33
replaceafilli would11:34
jelknerand how can we bill it to novalaciro?11:34
replaceafillwhat do you need?11:34
jelknersame as usual, our tendenci product11:34
jelknerand a website11:34
replaceafillok, who's working on the website?11:34
replaceafillzOnny, ?11:34
jelknerzOnny should be the primary responsable11:34
jelknersince he can work side-by-side with daniela11:35
replaceafillit seems like zOnny is getting a lot of work on his shoulders11:35
jelknerhe is11:35
jelknerhe wants to be full time11:35
replaceafilli assigned him a couple of AEA issues yesterday11:35
replaceafillah ok11:35
jelknerbut we need to keep an eye on making it not more than that11:35
replaceafillzOnny, let us know if you need help handling some of those11:35
zOnnyfor sure , replaceafill11:36
replaceafillok, i'll set up the vps today11:36
replaceafilland give zOnny access11:36
replaceafilljelkner, do we have a domain yet?11:36
zOnny:) nice replaceafill11:36
jelknerwe do11:36
jelknerwe have two:11:36
jelknerand novalaciro.us11:37
replaceafilljelkner, are those under namecheap?11:37
jelknerthey are11:37
jelkneri can share control with you11:37
replaceafilljelkner, could you give me access to them11:37
replaceafilljelkner, thanks11:37
replaceafilli think i have all i need11:37
jelknerhow do we bill novalaciro for this?11:37
lelkneralfarojelkner, prepare an invoice for the cost11:38
jelknerright, but how do we know the cost?11:38
jelknerthe cost should include two things:11:39
lelkneralfarojelkner, how much do you have to pay to set it up11:39
lelkneralfarotime to set it up11:39
lelkneralfaroat the cost per hour of whomever set it up11:39
jelknerand the cost of billing11:39
jelknerat the cost per hour of whomever bills11:39
jelknercollects payment11:39
replaceafilldo you guys think we should keep timesheets by client?11:40
jelknerdeposits it in our bank, etc11:40
lelkneralfaroreplaceafill, yes11:40
replaceafilland we write down what task we have done for them and who did them?11:40
jelknerwe have been muddying this til now11:40
replaceafillcool, we should do that11:40
jelknersince i've been paying for most of it11:40
lelkneralfaroyes it would be good to keep better track11:40
jelknerbut that needs to stop11:40
jelknerok, done with that11:41
lelkneralfaromeaning of cooperative membership11:41
lelkneralfaroto begin, the simple meaning, is that all members pitch in to the business11:42
lelkneralfaroand own it cooperatively11:42
lelkneralfaroand that all members are entitled to vote on the decisions that the cooperative makes11:43
lelkneralfaroso the benefit is that worker-owners get to take part in a democratically run business11:44
lelkneralfaroas far as how we exercise that democracy11:45
lelkneralfarothat is largely up for us to decide11:45
lelkneralfaroas long as we adhere to the 7 principles of cooperatives11:45
jelknerlelkneralfaro, let me know when we can ask questions11:46
lelkneralfarogo for it11:46
lelkneralfaroI'll jump into the bylaws in a sec11:46
lelkneralfarobut first I'll take comments/questions11:47
jelknerfor me, principle number 7 is extremely important11:47
jelknerdoes that free us legally from the normal corporate requirement in the US to be sociopaths?11:47
lelkneralfarojelkner, I think you are fishing for an easy answer here11:48
jelknernormal law in the US requires that corporations have a total disregard (if not downright disdain) for human beings11:48
jelknerthe are required to maximize profits11:49
jelknereven if the end of our species would result11:49
jelknerfrom the behavior in which they engage to that end11:49
jelknerRule 7 says "While focusing on member needs, cooperatives work for the sustainable development of communities through policies and programs accepted by the members."11:50
jelknerSince we are democratically owned, we can do that, yes?11:50
jelknerI mean, if we want to "make a living and not a killing", as long as a majority of us agree to that11:50
lelkneralfarojelkner, yes...11:50
lelkneralfarojelkner, I think other corporations could do so to if their shareholders didn't want to exercise their right to profit maximization11:51
jelknerwe can't have one disgruntled individual bring charges against us for not maximizing profits at the expense of human well begin11:51
jelknernot so11:51
jelknermy understanding is that case law in the US has shown that corporations exist *only* to maximize profit11:52
lelkneralfarojelkner, they could make the argument that profit is what's best for people11:52
lelkneralfarojelkner, but I think this is a discussion for another time anyway11:52
jelknerand they would win11:52
jelknersince that is our religion here11:52
jelknerthat's why i'm asking11:53
jelkneri know people have been trying to get around that11:53
lelkneralfarojelkner, I think that if the majority of cooperative members wanted to maximize profit11:53
jelknerwith things like C-Corps and Coops11:53
lelkneralfarojelkner, they might have the right to run their cooperative in such a manner11:53
jelknerof course they would11:54
jelknerthat's the democratic principle11:54
jelkneri'm not talking about that case11:54
jelkneri'm talking about if a majority of us decide not to poison the river and kill all the fish even though doing so would make us a fortune11:55
jelknerif we have a right to do that, and a single member can't take us to court for not maximizing our profit11:55
jelkneri thinks we can do what i'm saying11:56
lelkneralfarojelkner, and no they can't11:56
jelknerokie dokie11:57
lelkneralfarojelkner, I'm interested to talk to you after11:58
lelkneralfarojelkner, but let's leave it til then11:58
lelkneralfaroback to the bylaws11:58
lelkneralfaroI've put together this document, which we can work through together. 11:58
lelkneralfaroand it will be our agreement on how we run the business11:59
lelkneralfarowe can stay late today and go through it now, or if you'd like you can take the week to look it over11:59
lelkneralfaroand we can talk about it next week11:59
lelkneralfarofor those who won't be here, we can take notes and ask for your weigh in through email12:00
replaceafillthanks :)12:00
lelkneralfarowhat do people think?12:01
replaceafilli wasn't able to read past article 5, so next week would be better12:01
lelkneralfaroand everyone feel free to ask questions12:02
jelkneri would strongly encourage all perspective members to read over this12:03
jelknersince it will define our governance12:04
jelknerwe all like each other12:04
jelknerand we're small12:04
jelknerbut as we grow12:04
jelknerwe can expect disagreements to occasionally arise12:04
jelknergood governance has as its goal to minimize the pain when that happens12:04
jelknerso in the spirit of making nova web dev a real cooperative12:05
jelknerlet's look forward to a good discussion next week12:05
lelkneralfarowant to wrap it up for now?12:06
replaceafilli have a question12:06
lelkneralfaroreplaceafill, please12:06
replaceafillhow would that conversation go?12:06
replaceafilli mean, would we go through each article12:07
replaceafilland ask everybody, do you agree with everything in here?12:07
replaceafillthen next, and so on?12:07
jelkneri would hope for just that process, replaceafill 12:07
lelkneralfaroreplaceafill, I'd prefer if people go through it themselves12:08
jelknerwe may need a few iterations12:08
lelkneralfaroreplaceafill, over the week12:08
lelkneralfaroand return with questions/disagreements/ suggestions12:08
lelkneralfarobut there are a few things that we must decide together12:09
replaceafillthe yellow parts, right?12:09
lelkneralfaroreplaceafill, yup12:09
replaceafillok, thanks12:09
jelknerlelkneralfaro, i have one concern about what you are proposing, though12:10
lelkneralfarojelkner, go for it12:10
jelkneras someone long active politically, i have no shyness about voicing my concerns12:10
jelknerand i am also able to read a document like this with some understanding of the implications of this or that point12:11
jelknerbut we have some younger folks who we are talking to about being founding members12:11
jelknerit is really important to talk with them (perhaps you can do that one-on-one)12:11
jelknerand not just say "go read this thing"12:11
jelknerthat's my concern12:12
lelkneralfarothat's a fair concern12:12
lelkneralfaroif anyone wants help understanding the document or cooperatives, feel free to reach out to me12:13
lelkneralfaroI'll be happy to share what I know12:13
lelkneralfaroand do my best to answer any questions12:14
jelknercan we also do this -12:14
jelknersince i see zOnny on a regular basis12:14
lelkneralfarobut if you're interested in understanding the document, I think it is important you try to digest it on your own as best you can12:14
jelkneri'll talk to him individually12:15
jelknersince replaceafill can communicate with nrcerna, he can talk to her12:15
jelknerdoes that make sense?12:15
lelkneralfarojelkner, for sure12:15
replaceafillthat works for me12:15
jelkneri'm also meeting with ubuntourist hopefully this wednesday12:15
jelknerto talk with him12:15
jelkner(not that he is at all shy! ;-)12:15
jelknerlooking forward to next sunday at 11:30 then12:16
lelkneralfarojelkner, cool. so is that all?12:16
lelkneralfaroanybody want to add anything else?12:17
replaceafilllelkneralfaro, i have a question for you, but let's wait until the meeting is over12:17
lelkneralfaroreplaceafill, cool12:17
lelkneralfarowell it looks like I can12:17
lelkneralfaroACTION drops the bag of gravel12:18
replaceafillthanks everybody!12:18
zOnnyWait ..12:18
jelknerlater gaters12:18
lelkneralfarogo for it zOnny 12:18
nrcernazOnny,  i reply your email12:18
zOnnyAEA events replaceafill 12:18
replaceafillzOnny, yes?12:19
zOnnycan you explain a bit to ncerna about it replaceafill12:19
replaceafillzOnny, sure12:19
nrcernaYes please, replaceafill 12:20
replaceafillnrcerna, can you stay a bit?12:20
lelkneralfarojelkner, want to talk on the phone for a se12:20
replaceafilllelkneralfaro, my question is regarding our weekly meeting time12:20
lelkneralfaroreplaceafill, go for it12:20
replaceafilllelkneralfaro, now that you're on DST12:20
zOnnythanks , that is for me . 12:20
nrcernaOf course replaceafill , hangouts?12:20
replaceafillnrcerna, sure12:20
nrcernaThnak you zOnny 12:20
replaceafillzOnny, can you hangout in 10 minutes?12:20
replaceafilllelkneralfaro, could we move the meeting 1 hour earlier/later?12:21
zOnnysure , replaceafill12:21
replaceafilllelkneralfaro, it conflicts with the time i go pick up Camila12:21
replaceafillzOnny, nrcerna thanks, i'll ping you at 12:30 (10:30)12:21
lelkneralfaroreplaceafill, we are going to push back our meeting time over here12:22
lelkneralfaroreplaceafill, should stay the same for you12:22
replaceafilllelkneralfaro, i'm talking about our monday 1-1 meeting12:22
lelkneralfaroreplaceafill, ahhh yes. let's do one hour earlier12:22
lelkneralfaroso my 1 o clock12:23
replaceafilllelkneralfaro, cool, 1:00 pm your time, right?12:23
replaceafilllelkneralfaro, ok, thanks!12:23
lelkneralfaroreplaceafill, cool, talk to you tomorrow12:23
replaceafilllelkneralfaro, ttyl12:23
replaceafillzOnny, nrcerna getting my headset12:23
replaceafillnrcerna, zOnny
replaceafilljelkner, could you share dns access to NOVALACIRO?12:56
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jelknerreplaceafill, what is your username / email address?13:08
jelkneri'm in the screen where i need to add that13:08
replaceafilljelkner, username: replaceafillnova13:08
replaceafilljelkner, email: douglascerna@yahoo.com13:09
jelknerdone, replaceafill, the username was all i needed13:10
jelknerit now says invitation pending13:10
replaceafilljelkner, got the invitation, just accepted13:10
replaceafilljelkner, thanks!13:10
jelknerthere should be two13:11
jelknerokie dokie, i have teacher stuff to do for the rest of today13:12
jelknerbut i have one more practical question, replaceafill13:12
jelknerare we ready for the ORA meeting tomorrow?13:12
replaceafilljelkner, what do you mean?13:13
replaceafilljelkner, you mean if people will be able to record their attendance?13:13
jelknerwell, i'm going to show up at 7 pm tomorrow13:14
jelkneris lealkneralfaro coming?13:14
jelknershould i be asking people to sign-in / sign-up?13:15
replaceafilljelkner, have you seen this:
replaceafilljelkner, it was filed by Mike 2 days ago13:16
replaceafilljelkner, the underlying part is what we have, the access to the button is different13:16
replaceafilljelkner, my goal is to have that button in the homepage tomorrow13:16
replaceafilljelkner, but i'm not sure about this new workflow13:17
replaceafilljelkner, now that Mike is onboard13:17
replaceafilljelkner, should we wait for his approval to deploy things?13:17
jelkneri'm going to have to let lealkneralfaro and you determine that13:17
replaceafilljelkner, ok13:18
jelkneri don't have the ability to interact regularly with them13:18
replaceafilljelkner, sure13:18
jelkneronly lelkneralfaro does13:18
replaceafilljelkner, ok13:18
jelkneri would just appreciate instructions from you two as to what (if anything) i should do tomorrow13:19
jelknerwhen i get to the meeting13:19
replaceafilljelkner, ok, i'll contact you either at the end of the day or tomorrow13:19
replaceafilljelkner, with instructions13:19
jelknersend me an email13:19
replaceafilljelkner, will do13:19
jelknersince it is a crazy day13:19
jelkneri have aea delegate assembly before hand13:20
jelknerand meetings during the day13:20
replaceafilljelkner, ah ok13:20
jelknerthanks, man!13:20
replaceafillthank you jelkner13:20
jelknerhasta manyana, hermano!13:21
replaceafillhasta maƱana!13:21
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lelkneralfaroreplaceafill, hey you there?13:27
replaceafilllelkneralfaro, yes13:27
lelkneralfaroreplaceafill, my dad just left me a message asking about the attendance feature tomorrow13:27
lelkneralfaroreplaceafill, did you two just talk about it?13:27
replaceafilllelkneralfaro, yes13:27
replaceafilllelkneralfaro, i told him Mike requested a slight different feature13:28
replaceafilllelkneralfaro, and that i'm not sure about our workflow with Mike going forward13:28
lelkneralfaroreplaceafill, do you plan on having that ready for tomorrow? or should they sign up the old way13:28
replaceafilllelkneralfaro, i mean, are we going to wait for Mike's approval before deploying things13:28
replaceafilllelkneralfaro, if i can solve the last problem in the php app (i have a good idea) i think it'll be ready13:29
replaceafilllelkneralfaro, and we (you and i) could test it tomorrow during our meeting13:29
lelkneralfaroreplaceafill, that works for me. and if it's ready I don't think Mike will have any objections to deploying something this straightforward13:29
replaceafilllelkneralfaro, cool13:30
lelkneralfaroreplaceafill, although generally i suppose it is good to check with him first13:30
lelkneralfaroreplaceafill, but this doesn't seem controversial13:30
replaceafilllelkneralfaro, sure13:30
lelkneralfaroreplaceafill, and the time thing has been sorted out?13:30
replaceafilllelkneralfaro, yes13:30
lelkneralfaroreplaceafill, wonderful. 13:31
replaceafilllelkneralfaro, i'll just double check that the server picked up the DST change13:31
lelkneralfaroreplaceafill, perfect13:31
replaceafilllelkneralfaro, hopefully putting the button in the homepage will increase the number of people clicking it :)13:31
replaceafilllelkneralfaro, or even signing up13:32
lelkneralfaroreplaceafill, hopefully so! :)13:32
lelkneralfaroreplaceafill, although I'm sure they will have password problems again13:32
replaceafilllelkneralfaro, but we have the reset link there already ;)13:32
lelkneralfaroreplaceafill, yup so I hope it goes :)13:32
replaceafilllelkneralfaro, i'm also thinking of deploying the facebook sidebar once mr_german is done with that13:33
replaceafilllelkneralfaro, that's also not that "controversial", right?13:33
lelkneralfaroreplaceafill, nope it doesnt seem so13:34
lelkneralfaroalright i'll talk to you later13:48
lelkneralfaroreplaceafill, 13:48
lelkneralfarosigning off irc for now13:48
replaceafilllelkneralfaro, cool13:48
lelkneralfaroreplaceafill, see you tomorrow13:48
replaceafilllelkneralfaro, see you o/13:48
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