IRC log of #novawebdev for Sunday, 2018-04-15

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mr_germangood morning replaceafill, jelkner 11:08
replaceafillgood morning mr_german11:09
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lelkneralfaroI don't have anything to report today11:32
lelkneralfaroand no one has added anything to the agenda11:32
replaceafillquick meeting! :D11:32
jelknernot so quick11:32
jelkneri would like to move that our business manager agree to present us with legal bylaws for the state of va in 2 weeks11:33
jelknerand then i'd like to discuss the definiition of "intern" relating to our organization11:33
jelknercan we talk about interns?11:35
jelknermr_german, hrodriguez, mjsir911 what do you think?11:36
lelkneralfarojelkner, I second the motion11:36
mjsir911which part about interns?11:37
ubuntouristBylaws in two weeks: +111:39
jelknerok, i'm going to run with this11:40
jelknermr_german, are you here?11:40
mr_germanjelkner, yes11:40
jelkner1st, a bit of background11:40
jelknerthis came from chris hedrick's experience11:41
jelknerhe was a student who worked with us for 4 years11:41
jelkner3 years as an "intern" and one year as the only truly working "member"11:41
jelknerhere is what we came up with11:41
jelkner1. you can be an intern with nova web development for a maximum of three years11:42
jelkner2. after 3 years you have to either be invited to join as a member/owner, or asked to move on11:42
jelknerthat was basically it11:42
jelkneri would like to add a 3rd requirement11:43
jelkner3. interns must be people with less than 3 years experience in the IT field11:43
mjsir911does that not invalidate rule 1 and 2?11:43
mjsir911or at least enforce it implicitly11:44
hrodriguezBut, after 3 years is gonna be our decision to stay or move on? jelkner11:46
jelknerit will be both, hrodriguez, and it doesn't have be 3 years11:46
jelknerlet me explain where this came from11:47
mjsir911is an intern garunteed membership after the internship expires?11:47
jelknerthere are thousands of IT jobs listed in the washington post11:47
jelkner(or at least there were when chedrick was looking)11:47
jelkneralmost all of them said "requires 3 years experience"11:48
jelknerwe talked about the problem with this11:48
jelknerhow do you get 3 years experience if all experience requires 3 years experience already?11:48
jelknersince we are connected to an educational program11:49
jelknerwe will have young folks (like chedrick, mjsir911, hrodriguez)11:49
jelknerwho don't have any experience11:49
jelknerwe want to give them an opportunity to work with us11:49
jelknerbut we want to protect them from being exploited by us in the long run11:49
jelknerand protect us from their inexperience11:50
jelknernormally, experienced new members will be "invited"11:50
jelknerand after a 6 month or 1 year trial period11:50
jelknerbe voted in as members11:50
jelknerbut for interns that process won't work11:50
jelknerdoes this make sense?11:51
jelknerin chedrick's case it worked perfectly as planned11:51
jelknerhe got an industry job, and tells me straight up it was the novawebdev experience on his resume that got him that job11:51
ubuntouristThere is a funny novel about the absurdity of war, "Catch-22" by Joseph Heller, which has a paradox as an important part of the premise.11:52
jelknerwe hope, hrodriguez, you will come to love the idea of platform coops and want to stay with us and become a member11:52
jelknerbut we need time for you and us to decide if that makes sense11:52
jelkneri'm done, unless there are questions11:53
ubuntouristThere is always a "loophole" or "catch" to what seems to be a good rule. This has type of contradiction / paradox now takes its name from the title of the novel.11:53
jelknermjsir911, not guaranteed 11:53
jelkneri would assume that if we let someone stay for three years, we would want to invite them11:54
ubuntouristSo: "You need work experience to get a job. You need a job to get work experience." is a "catch-22".11:54
jelknerbut i can imagine a few scenarios where that doesn't happen11:54
jelkner1. we have a young person we like a lot but they don't really fit with our needs as a coop11:55
jelknerwe want to give them a good recommendation and let them fill out their resume11:55
jelknerbut not make them a voting member11:55
jelkner2. we have a young person who wants an "internship" (for the reasons mentioned) but plans to do other things afterward11:56
jelknerlelkneralfaro jokingly mentioned what happens if they start acting weird in the last 2 weeks ;-)11:56
jelknerbut i would hope after 3 years we would know them well enough11:57
replaceafilljelkner, +1 on that last point11:57
jelkneri mean some of us may start acting weird when we turn 60 ;-(11:57
jelknerone last thing11:58
jelknerour meeting is almost over11:58
jelknerwe need to define rights and responsibilities for interns11:58
jelkneri'd like to propose that interns have the right to particpate11:58
jelknerbut not to vote11:59
jelknerthat thought came from the mjsir911 replaceafill discussion yesterday11:59
jelknermjsir911 has strong opinions11:59
jelkneras an intern, he should have the right to voice them11:59
jelknerbut only the members will vote on the final decision12:00
lelkneralfaroACTION drops the bag of gravel12:01
lelkneralfaroI agree with jelkner's proposal12:01
ubuntouristPro-forma "Code of Conduct" signature... It may seem like B.S. but it has now come up in Ubuntu Launchpad, HacDC, and a few other organizations.12:02
mr_germanbtw. lelkneralfaro did you my email?12:03
mr_germandid you see*12:03
lelkneralfaromr_german, yes. didn't have a chance to get back to you yet12:04
lelkneralfaromr_german, but it's the novawebdevelopment logo12:04
mr_germanlelkneralfaro, oh, ok12:04
mr_germanlelkneralfaro, anything else?12:04
replaceafillzOnny, are you around_12:12
zOnnyhey replaceafill 12:23
replaceafillzOnny, i'm filing a bug that i'll assign to you12:23
zOnnyok replaceafill 12:24
replaceafillzOnny, done12:25
replaceafillzOnny, you already started fixing that iirc12:25
replaceafillzOnny, now we just need to make the switch in all the themes12:26
replaceafillzOnny, makes sense?12:26
replaceafillzOnny, check how helios looks with the ORA theme:
mr_germanreplaceafill, that's helios?12:28
replaceafillzOnny, if you compare with ORA testing you'll notice the banner missing12:28
replaceafillmr_german, yes12:28
replaceafillmr_german, reusing the ora_dev branch from the base theme12:28
zOnnyok, replaceafill 12:28
replaceafillzOnny, because helios doesn't have access to boxes12:29
mr_germanreplaceafill, it looks really good12:29
replaceafillzOnny, the navs are fake, but we don't need to be faking boxes in helios12:29
replaceafillmr_german, indeed12:29
replaceafillmr_german, your desing :)12:29
mr_germanreplaceafill, it was hard to get there?12:33
replaceafillmr_german, tricky12:34
replaceafillmr_german, here's where you feel the pain of our own theming decisions12:34
replaceafillmr_german, like markup being different for ora, aea, novalaciro, etc12:34
replaceafillmr_german, because of the design structures12:35
replaceafillmr_german, but it's worth the pain when you see it working :)12:35
mr_germanreplaceafill, oh12:39
replaceafillmr_german, zOnny helios with the AEA theme:
replaceafillnote the NOVA logo missin :'(12:48
zOnnyI will make the nova-logo hardcoded same as novalaciro replaceafill 12:53
zOnnyhey replaceafill one question12:53
zOnnythere is an option that allows users click on add new page or add new box ? 12:55
replaceafillzOnny, i don't understand the question12:57
replaceafillzOnny, "click on add new page"?12:57
replaceafillzOnny, what do you mean?12:57
mr_germanreplaceafill, it looks good too12:59
zOnnyex. once the want to add a new page where they should look for ?12:59
zOnnyif I want to add a box where should I look for ?13:00
replaceafillzOnny, i'm not sure if i undertand you13:00
replaceafillzOnny, ah ok13:01
replaceafillzOnny, 1. you need the user to be an admin, right?13:01
zOnnyI mean once you are the admin and want to make these changes13:01
replaceafillzOnny, the dashboard?13:01
replaceafillzOnny, you can get to Pages from there13:01
zOnnythere is an option for pages correct but boxes ?13:02
replaceafillzOnny, boxes can be accessed from the megamenu13:02
replaceafillzOnny, under the Apps submenu13:02
replaceafillzOnny, then 7. Layout13:02
replaceafillzOnny, Boxes13:02
zOnnyremember that home page its been displaying in a box13:02
replaceafillzOnny, so?13:02
replaceafillzOnny, why can't they just go to the homepage once logged in13:03
replaceafillzOnny, and use the "edit something something box" link13:03
replaceafillzOnny, ?13:03
replaceafillzOnny, by something something i meant the title of the box ;)13:03
zOnnyI can see pages replaceafill 13:03
replaceafillzOnny, did you find the options you needed?13:10
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jelknerping replaceafill 13:22
replaceafilljelkner, pong13:27
jelknerdid you do anything with email for novalaciro, replaceafill?13:31
jelknermjsir911 thought he could do that through namecheap13:32
jelknerbut he saw mx records already configured13:32
jelknerso he didn't want to break what you had done13:32
jelknerour immediate need is to have work13:32
replaceafilljelkner, i think we're mixing tasks here13:32
replaceafilljelkner, i didn't know i *had* to do anything about it13:32
jelkner(forward to her gmail account)13:32
jelkneri wasn't going to bother you about it13:33
jelknersince mjsir911 said he could handle it13:33
replaceafilljelkner, cool13:33
jelkneri'm only asking you now because he thought you had done something with the mx record13:33
jelknerif you didn't, he can delete that safely for now, yes?13:33
replaceafilljelkner, well we have our own email server for novalaciro.org13:34
replaceafilljelkner, that's the configuration that's set up13:34
replaceafilljelkner, but we decided not to use it, yes?13:34
replaceafilljelkner, so mjsir911 can get rid of it13:34
replaceafilljelkner, anything else you need from me?13:36
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jelkneryes, replaceafill 13:37
jelknernext saturday and sunday hrodriguez will be going out door knocking with daniela in hrodriguez's neighborhood13:37
jelknerwe should talk about how we will enter info into our database13:39
jelknerdo you have any thoughts on that, replaceafill?13:39
replaceafilljelkner, is there any problem on using the "Join Us" form?13:40
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jelknerhow well does that work with a phone?13:40
jelknerwe should test it13:40
replaceafilljelkner,  +113:40
jelknerin the middle term, i'm going to ask mjsir911 to work on a mobile app for us13:40
replaceafilljelkner, ok13:41
jelknerweb app13:41
replaceafilljelkner, iirc our membership forms are quite responsive13:41
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jelknerso they hide the navigation etc?13:41
jelknerthat's what you really want13:41
jelknerno url bar13:41
replaceafilljelkner, the part that may not make sense depending on your needs is the account information13:41
jelknerfull screen13:42
jelknerlet's see13:42
replaceafilljelkner, i mean, username, password, confirm password13:42
replaceafilljelkner, again, depends on what you really need13:42
replaceafilljelkner, other approach would be to create a form just for "data entry"13:42
jelknerwe aren't 100% sure what we need13:42
replaceafilljelkner, if you're just gathering info about people interested13:42
replaceafilljelkner, and don't want them to become "real members" in the system13:43
jelknerwe want to create a list of "concerns" from folks who may not be ready to join yet13:43
replaceafilljelkner, then i'd recommend a custom Tendenci Form13:43
replaceafilljelkner, can you mention some fields you need?13:43
jelknerlet's just say one for now13:44
jelknerQuestion: What would you say is the biggest concern you have that a group like NOVALACIRO could help you resolve?13:44
replaceafilljelkner, wouldn't be something like "person, address, issue"13:45
jelknerperson, address, issue13:45
replaceafilljelkner, we're talking Daniela and hrodriguez making the data entry, right?13:45
replaceafilljelkner, so we don't really need the user to see the form13:45
replaceafilljelkner, ok13:45
replaceafilljelkner, hold on13:45
jelknerwe don't need the "person" to see the form13:45
jelknerthe "user"s will be daniela and hrodriguez 13:46
jelknerthey need to see it! ;-)13:46
jelknerwhat would it take to have the form you describe?13:46
jelknerand you hit the nail on the head13:47
jelknerwith one modification13:47
jelknerwe want to record metadata13:47
jelknerdate and time13:47
replaceafilljelkner, hrodriguez
jelknerthis will be our first baby step in developing a canvassing feature13:47
mr_germanreplaceafill, one question13:47
jelknerthere we go again13:48
jelknertendenci has what we need!13:48
jelkneri'm luvin this a lot!13:48
jelknerok, replaceafill, lelkneralfaro wants to talk to me about something lese13:48
jelknercan we have this ready for daniela to see by tuesday?13:49
jelknersince it is "done" already?13:49
replaceafilljelkner, it depends on zOnny really13:49
jelknerhow so?13:49
replaceafilljelkner, you should be talking to him about this :)13:49
replaceafilljelkner, he's the one in charge of theming, setting up, etc13:50
jelkneri will13:50
replaceafilljelkner, last thing13:50
replaceafilljelkner, no, never mind, i'll let you go13:50
replaceafillzOnny, let me know if you have questions about this13:50
replaceafillzOnny, and you should explore modal forms13:50
replaceafillzOnny, like the Subscribe and Contact button at the bottom of
replaceafillzOnny, that *may* make hrodriguez and Daniela's work easier13:51
lelkneralfaroreplaceafill, hey do you have a moment?14:00
replaceafilllelkneralfaro, kind of14:00
replaceafilllelkneralfaro, :)14:00
lelkneralfaroreplaceafill, haha cool. I just wanted to put something on your radar and talk to you about it as soon as we are both free14:01
lelkneralfaroreplaceafill, I want to set up tendenci for Celina14:02
replaceafilllelkneralfaro, ah cool14:02
replaceafilllelkneralfaro, when do you need it for?14:02
replaceafilllelkneralfaro, and don't get me the "tan pronto como sea posible" answer :D14:02
lelkneralfaroreplaceafill, lol I wouldn't do that to you14:03
lelkneralfaroreplaceafill, I have some time on my hands now14:03
lelkneralfaroreplaceafill, and jelkner was suggesting that I can help with the switch over14:03
lelkneralfaroreplaceafill, which will give me some experience with the set up process14:03
replaceafilllelkneralfaro, i assume you're talking about setting up cms content, right?14:04
replaceafilllelkneralfaro, not setting up the server14:04
replaceafilllelkneralfaro, what's the long term plan for their instance?14:04
lelkneralfaroreplaceafill, yes setting up the cms content.14:05
replaceafilllelkneralfaro, i mean, are we going to handle this like we're doing with Lee's site?14:05
replaceafilllelkneralfaro, set up a separate server, set up the content there14:06
lelkneralfaroreplaceafill, yes this would be like Lee's site14:06
replaceafilllelkneralfaro, once they're happy, we switch the dns and kill the old one14:06
lelkneralfaroreplaceafill, exactly14:06
replaceafilllelkneralfaro, cool, are we getting the linode?14:06
replaceafilllelkneralfaro, or are they going to do that?14:06
jelknerreplaceafill, i have a big question about this14:06
replaceafilllelkneralfaro, i think i cc'ed you on the linode transfer email?14:06
jelknerand lelkneralfaro needs to be in the mix on this too14:06
jelknerwe have two different linode accounts, yes?14:07
replaceafilljelkner, two?14:07
jelkneri'm asking because we can get in serious trouble if we don't do the accounting right14:07
replaceafilljelkner, considering gctaa?14:07
replaceafilljelkner, i don't consider gctaa novawebdev's14:07
replaceafilljelkner, no offense :)14:07
jelknernever mind then14:07
jelknernone taken14:07
jelknerit is just confusing for me14:08
jelknersince i work with the same people in both ;-)14:08
jelknerzOnny, mainly14:08
replaceafilljelkner, two hats!14:08
replaceafilljelkner, :D14:08
jelknerok, where are the funds coming from for our linode?14:08
jelknerthey are just linked to my credit card, yes?14:08
replaceafilljelkner, we're running out of credits14:08
replaceafilljelkner, yes14:08
replaceafilljelkner, but they come from you14:08
jelkneri want to request that we change that14:08
replaceafilljelkner, +114:09
jelknerit is getting out of hand14:09
jelkneri don't monitor it14:09
jelknerand it is a hidden cost to us doing business14:09
replaceafilljelkner, but we need to switch "client" linodes14:09
jelknersince it seems "free" to you14:09
replaceafilljelkner, to a new accounting14:09
jelknerlelkneralfaro should be in charge of that14:09
replaceafilljelkner, and keep development ones in a separate14:09
replaceafilljelkner, don't you think?14:09
jelknerand it should be linked to our credit union account14:09
jelknerit should be linked to the novawebdevelopment credit uninon account14:10
jelkneri can still through some money in now and then when we need it14:10
jelknerbut the accounting would be clear14:10
jelknerand the cost factored into our business14:10
replaceafilljelkner, +114:10
lelkneralfarojelkner, +114:11
replaceafilllelkneralfaro, do you know how to do that? i mean, in linode?14:11
lelkneralfaroreplaceafill, probably. just changing payroll information14:12
replaceafilllelkneralfaro, yes,
lelkneralfaroreplaceafill, as long as the info is shared with me I can make the switch14:12
replaceafilllelkneralfaro, yes, you have an admin user there "louisea-novawebdev"14:13
lelkneralfaroreplaceafill, okay i've never used it14:13
replaceafilllelkneralfaro, let me know if you need the password reset14:13
replaceafilllelkneralfaro, oh never mind, there's a forgot password link :)14:14
lelkneralfaroreplaceafill, cool thanks14:14
jelknerreplaceafill, i can tell him the password14:14
replaceafilljelkner, we all have accounts linked there, or he can use the master one, sure14:15
replaceafilljelkner, oh, zOnny doesn't...14:15
replaceafilllelkneralfaro, did you see
jelkneri just gave lelkneralfaro the master one14:16
replaceafilljelkner, cool14:16
jelknerthat's the only one i know14:17
replaceafilljelkner, too much power!14:17
replaceafilllelkneralfaro, i think we should try to keep that spreadsheet as updated as possible14:18
replaceafilllelkneralfaro, and the billing and monthly cost information is good for accounting14:18
lelkneralfaroreplaceafill, for sure14:19
replaceafilllelkneralfaro, and the service urls help us manage the content, etc of each site14:19
replaceafilllelkneralfaro, and service credential14:20
replaceafilllelkneralfaro, in case someone needs them14:20
replaceafilllelkneralfaro, so, look at cases like Lee Carter14:20
replaceafilllelkneralfaro, his production site is paid by him14:21
replaceafilllelkneralfaro, but the one we're developing it's paid by us14:21
replaceafilllelkneralfaro, well, jelkner :)14:21
lelkneralfaroreplaceafill, i see14:21
replaceafilllelkneralfaro, once we make the development site the official one14:21
replaceafilllelkneralfaro, we'd need to "transfer" the linode14:21
replaceafilllelkneralfaro, like we discussed doing for aea14:21
replaceafilllelkneralfaro, aea's linode, same story14:22
replaceafilllelkneralfaro, novalaciro, same story14:22
replaceafilllelkneralfaro, i think ORA stays with us14:22
replaceafilllelkneralfaro, but we'll need to get rid of one linode14:22
replaceafilllelkneralfaro, once we switch to tendenci14:22
lelkneralfaroreplaceafill, and then we'll need to get payment info from Lee?14:23
replaceafilllelkneralfaro, correct14:23
lelkneralfaroreplaceafill, cool14:23
replaceafillmjsir911, could you get into your novawebdev linode account14:23
mjsir911kill check14:23
replaceafillmjsir911, and let me know if you're still using the "Tendenci Deployment Testing" server14:23
mjsir911yea I'm not14:24
replaceafillmjsir911, could you remove it?14:24
replaceafillmjsir911, thanks14:24
replaceafilllelkneralfaro, so based on all this work we need to do14:25
replaceafilllelkneralfaro, how do you want to handle Celina's new site?14:25
replaceafilllelkneralfaro, do you want to wait until they have their own linode account?14:25
replaceafilllelkneralfaro, oh, nationalhospital, same case14:26
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lelkneralfaroreplaceafill, one sec discussing it with jelkner14:27
replaceafilllelkneralfaro, sure14:28
replaceafillmr_german, did you have question?14:28
replaceafillmr_german, sorry i didn't reply then14:28
lelkneralfaroreplaceafill, just talked about it with jelkner we should set it up under our own account14:34
lelkneralfaroreplaceafill, and then we can bill her14:34
replaceafilllelkneralfaro, cool, i'll let you handle the accounting work however you think is best14:35
lelkneralfaroreplaceafill, rather than setting up an independent account for her14:35
replaceafilllelkneralfaro, my only tech requirement14:35
lelkneralfaroreplaceafill, +114:35
replaceafilllelkneralfaro, if we go with independent accounts for some of our clients14:35
replaceafilllelkneralfaro, i mean linode accounts14:36
mr_germanreplaceafill, yes14:36
mr_germanreplaceafill, my question was14:36
replaceafilllelkneralfaro, we need to request additional accounts for us14:36
replaceafilllelkneralfaro, so we can still manage their linodes14:36
jelknerreplaceafill, what do you mean additional accounts?14:36
mr_germanreplaceafill, if the nova logo has to be static or a box14:37
jelknerwe only need one account14:37
jelknerlots of vps's, yes?14:37
jelkneri'm confused14:37
replaceafilljelkner, i meant, for instance AEA14:37
replaceafilljelkner, you want them to be paying for their own linode, right?14:37
jelkneraea has their own account14:37
replaceafilljelkner, not in linode14:37
replaceafilljelkner, they have a webfaction one14:37
replaceafilljelkner, same with lee carter14:37
replaceafilljelkner, etc14:37
jelknerdo you want me to revisit the history of this discussion, replaceafill?14:38
jelkneri thought you were familiar with it14:38
jelkneri was sharing it with lelkneralfaro who is not familiar with it14:38
replaceafilljelkner, ehh, maybe14:38
jelkneri'll sum up14:38
replaceafilljelkner, please14:38
jelknerreplaceafill, we need to get this done14:39
jelknerso i'll explain after lelkneralfaro leaves14:39
replaceafilljelkner, ok14:39
lelkneralfaroreplaceafill, yes, sorry I have to get going14:39
jelknerfor now, let's create a vps on our account for celina14:39
replaceafilllelkneralfaro, so, should i go get ahed and start with celina's setup?14:39
replaceafilllelkneralfaro, jelkner cool14:39
replaceafilllelkneralfaro, jelkner will do TAN PRONTO COMO PUEDA14:40
jelknerso, who should do that14:40
replaceafilljelkner, the linode set up, me14:40
replaceafilljelkner, the content set up, lelkneralfaro14:40
jelknerokie dokie14:40
replaceafilljelkner, lelkneralfaro we'll probably need a theme14:40
replaceafilljelkner, lelkneralfaro who does that?14:40
replaceafilljelkner, lelkneralfaro we can get started with teh base theme14:40
replaceafilljelkner, lelkneralfaro but that can only takes us so far14:41
jelknerwe just saying you decide that14:41
jelknermr_german, probably14:41
replaceafilljelkner, +114:41
mr_germanjelkner, ok!14:41
lelkneralfaroreplaceafill, jelkner +114:41
replaceafilllelkneralfaro, that's it from me then14:41
lelkneralfaroreplaceafill, cool me too14:41
replaceafilllelkneralfaro, thanks a lot!14:41
lelkneralfaroreplaceafill, you too :)14:42
replaceafilllelkneralfaro, see you tomorrow14:42
lelkneralfaroreplaceafill, talk to you then14:42
jelknerok replaceafill a brief summary with new information14:42
jelknerthe "normal" way to do this is that someone calls up and says14:43
jelkner"Hi NOVA Web Development, I need a website to organize my folks, can you help me with that?"14:43
jelknerand we say14:43
jelkner"You bet! You've called the right place. Tell us a bit more about what you need and we'll set you right up."14:43
replaceafilljelkner, are you going to the "yearly subscription package"?14:44
jelknerby "set you right up"14:44
jelkneryes, for serving14:44
replaceafilljelkner, a fixed amount for services included14:44
replaceafilljelkner, during a period of time14:44
jelknerwe haven't been doing that14:44
jelkneron my insistance14:44
replaceafilljelkner, that includes linodes and all the behind the scenes stuff14:44
replaceafilljelkner, but you want clients to have control14:45
replaceafilljelkner, of their future14:45
replaceafilljelkner, decisions14:45
replaceafilljelkner, tech decisions14:45
jelknerso, the main reason i insisted on not doing that14:45
replaceafilljelkner, so they may leave *us* and go with the competition and still use the same linode if they care14:45
jelkneris i was proceeding on the assumption that we were a precarious organization14:45
jelknernot likely to even exist in a year14:45
replaceafilljelkner, we still are ;)14:46
jelkner*and*, the person who handles that kind of billing and setup14:46
jelkneris our business manager14:46
jelknerwe didn't even have one of those14:46
replaceafilljelkner, ah got it14:46
jelkneryes, my friend, we are14:46
jelknerbut we need to being acting like we're not14:46
jelknerit will be a transition14:46
jelknerbut is we are going to make it to the other side14:46
jelknerwe need to take steps14:46
jelknerin the case of celina14:47
jelkneri said to lelkneralfaro14:47
jelknershe is family14:47
jelknereven if we go out of business she will know where to find us ;-)14:47
replaceafilljelkner, and that's why we're a precarious organization!14:47
replaceafilljelkner, i think i understand you, really14:48
jelknerso let's use this opportunity to treat her like one of our future "we take of everything" customers14:48
replaceafilljelkner, cool14:48
replaceafilljelkner, makes sense14:48
jelknerso you, lekneralfaro, can learn how this process works14:48
replaceafilljelkner, what about lee and elizabeth?14:48
replaceafilljelkner, if you start calling people family14:48
replaceafilljelkner, that makes this a bit blurry14:48
replaceafilljelkner, aea?14:48
jelkneri would say the same thing for them14:48
jelknerthis is art, not science14:49
replaceafilljelkner, sure14:49
jelknerbut let me explain my thinking14:49
jelkneraea is different14:49
jelkneraea has been around for a loooong time14:49
jelknerand will continue to be so14:49
jelkneralysha retired14:49
jelkneraea remains14:49
replaceafilljelkner, right14:49
jelkneringrid and keri will retire14:49
jelkneraea will remain14:50
jelknerso they should have their own account14:50
replaceafilljelkner, +114:50
jelknersince they will very likely outlive us14:50
jelknerbut lee and elizabeth is a different story14:50
replaceafilljelkner, so the question on how to set up future projects becomes "will they outlive us?"14:50
jelkneryes, that's one test14:50
replaceafilljelkner, or "are they family to us?"14:50
replaceafilljelkner, :D14:50
jelknera good way to think about it14:50
jelknerboth, man14:51
jelknerhere is where the family part comes in14:51
jelknerif it turns out our beloved coop isn't going to make it14:51
jelkneri will feel obligated to do all the work needed to take care of our partners14:52
jelknerand customers14:52
jelknerhow much of that can i handle?14:52
jelknerthat's the "family" part14:52
replaceafilljelkner, cool14:52
jelknercan i handle helping celina, lee, and elizabeth setup their own linode accounts and migrating them over later if need be?14:53
jelkneryes, i think so14:53
jelknerbut i can't do 200 of those14:53
replaceafilljelkner, you just need to understand that my family is you, not them14:53
jelknerand still keep my teaching job14:53
replaceafilljelkner, so it's a bit difficult for me to realize who's your family14:53
replaceafilljelkner, this conversation became really abstract :D14:53
jelkneri'm aweful on that one, replaceafill 14:53
jelknersince i consider humanity to be my family ;-)14:53
replaceafilljelkner, :D14:54
jelknerin this context, "family" is a word for a somewhat higher level of personal commitment then "the human family", however14:54
replaceafilljelkner, sure14:55
jelknerif replaceafill shows up at my door needing a place to live14:55
jelkneri'll take him in14:55
replaceafilljelkner, i just wish some of the causes were more familiar to me14:55
jelkneras much as i may love humanity in the abstract14:55
jelknerif a stranger shows up at my door needing a place to live14:55
jelkneri won't take them in14:55
jelknerso i guess they're not family14:55
replaceafilljelkner, :)14:55
jelkneranyway, this is getting too abstract14:56
replaceafilljelkner, :D14:56
jelknerthe important thing is, i have two goals:14:56
jelkner1. for lelkneralfaro to begin taking on more of a "business manger" role14:56
jelkner2. for our service to our customers (our product) to get nicer and nicer14:57
replaceafilljelkner, right14:57
jelkneri figured in this case, asking celina (which will really mean lelkneralfaro)14:57
jelknerto setup her own linode account14:57
jelknerdidn't make sense14:57
jelknerlelkneralfaro would have had to do it anyway14:57
jelknerso why not get him managing our linode account instead?14:58
jelkneri think that is a sound decision14:58
replaceafilljelkner, +114:58
replaceafilljelkner, we need expenses too, accounting, be more of a formal company14:59
jelknerthat's what lelkneralfaro and i were talking about14:59
jelknerhe is the one who needs to get a handle on that14:59
replaceafilljelkner, +114:59
jelknerwe need to know what our costs of doing business are14:59
jelknerwe need to get a handle on our accounting15:00
jelkneri knew i would never have the time or patience to do that effectively15:00
replaceafilljelkner, and if we ever ask for a loan, those are basic things we'll be asked i pressume15:00
jelknerthough strangely enough, i am the one forced to do it for novalaciro15:00
jelknera big +115:01
jelknerwe need to have our accounting in order15:01
jelknerhow much did you make last year?15:01
jelknerwhat were your expenses?15:01
replaceafillhow did you distribute profit among members?15:01
jelknerwhy do you think what you are doing will result in a profitable business in the future?15:01
jelknerso many things to address15:02
jelknerbut you and me, replaceafill need to get our product ready to demo15:02
jelknerthat's the main thing15:02
replaceafilljelkner, i know15:02
jelknerthe accounting is extremely important too15:03
replaceafilljelkner, but with so many balls in the air to handle, progress feels slow sometimes15:03
jelknerbut to me, the product is the horse, the accounting is the cart15:03
jelknerand as the saying goes, you shouldn't put the cart before the horse15:03
replaceafilljelkner, did you see this: ah jelkner, i'll die poor following you, but happy that i did15:03
replaceafilljelkner, oops15:03
jelknerso, can i vote for Camila?15:04
jelkneryeah, replaceafill!15:04
replaceafilljelkner, that's the rough working version15:04
replaceafilljelkner, but it proved to be possible15:04
jelknerthis is fantastic, wonderful news15:05
jelknerhere's the plan15:05
replaceafilljelkner, now we need to get zOnny and mr_german aligned to the goals15:05
replaceafilljelkner, helios design goals15:05
jelkneryou teach them, i nag them15:05
jelknerteam work!15:05
replaceafilljelkner, :D15:05
replaceafilljelkner, what's the plan?15:06
jelkner1. zOnny is working with hrodriguez to get all the content migrated for aea15:06
jelkner2. tomorrow i show it to keri and ingrid15:07
jelkner3. tuesday, if all goes well, we "flip the switch"15:07
jelkneronce that is in place15:07
jelknerwe can talk about using all the new features, and especially helios, with aea15:07
replaceafilljelkner, cool15:07
jelknerreplaceafill, i need to go15:07
replaceafilljelkner, sure, np15:08
replaceafilljelkner, thanks a lot man15:08
replaceafilljelkner, it was a great day15:08
jelkneri need to work with ubuntourist before we leave today15:08
replaceafilljelkner, lots of small victories15:08
jelknerit really was15:08
replaceafilljelkner, kk15:08
jelknerwe got *a lot* done!15:08
jelknerlater gater15:08
replaceafilljelkner, later!15:08
jelknerACTION signs off for the day15:08
replaceafillACTION signs off too15:20
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