IRC log of #novawebdev for Friday, 2018-08-24

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mr_germanreplaceafill, ready? or you're busy'13:02
replaceafillmr_german, let me pause what i'm doing13:02
replaceafillmr_german, ok, pause13:03
replaceafillmr_german, do you want to hang out?13:03
mr_germansure13:03
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jelknerzOnny, where are you?14:50
zOnnyjelkner: library14:51
lelkneralfarojelkner, I'm reading on Stripe's website that the first transfer Stripe makes to a bank account takes 7 days14:58
lelkneralfarojelkner, and then after that 2 days14:58
lelkneralfarojelkner, so we can take the risk of having people donate on Saturday14:59
lelkneralfarojelkner, despite the fact that we haven't verified that it works14:59
lelkneralfarojelkner, I guess the worst that can happen is that it fails and people's donations fail14:59
jelkneraha15:00
jelknerwell then, we need to wait 7 day15:00
jelkners15:00
jelknersweet15:00
jelkneragreed15:00
jelknerlet's take the rist15:00
jelknerrisk15:00
jelknerwe need to put that on our website15:00
jelknerplease donate15:00
jelknerwith a link15:00
jelkneri just created the election15:01
lelkneralfarocool. well in that case I'll send out our account info to everybody in the team. have them set it up and see if we can receive donations to novawebdev15:01
jelkneryes15:01
jelkner+115:01
jelkneri'm about to open the election15:01
jelknerreplaceafill, let's see how soon we can get all 6 of us to vote15:01
lelkneralfarojelkner, although, now that we are talking about it, what's the benefit of having a team?15:01
jelknerreplaceafill, wow!!!!!15:02
replaceafilljelkner, cool15:02
jelknerwhat a pleasure it now is to vote15:02
jelknerwe need to do this same thing for our other components tan pronto que sea possible15:02
replaceafilljelkner, :D15:02
jelknerit is lovely!!15:02
jelknerAEA will be singing our praises15:03
jelknerand customers will soon be lining up at the door ;-)15:03
zOnnyhey replaceafill 15:04
replaceafilljelkner, we haven't deployed it to AEA yet though15:04
lelkneralfarojelkner, what's the benefit of having a team in liberapay?15:04
jelknerso, replaceafill, we announce that git repos will soon be available, yes?15:04
jelknerwe won't be lying if we say that tomorrow15:04
replaceafilljelkner, +115:04
jelknerzOnny, can you please vote?15:04
jelknerlelkneralfaro, replaceafill, you too15:04
replaceafilljelkner, i want to get that done early next week15:04
lelkneralfarojelkner, already voted15:04
jelknersweet15:04
jelknerzOnny, replaceafill if you do that now, we will only be waiting for natalia15:05
jelknerlelkneralfaro, so, you got to see the hard work that replaceafill and mr_german did first hand15:05
lelkneralfarojelkner, what's the benefit of having a team in liberapay?15:05
replaceafilljelkner, voted15:06
jelkneras opposed to what, lelkneralfaro?15:06
jelknerwe are asking people to donate to our project15:06
jelknerlibre organize15:06
jelknernot to us, per se15:06
lelkneralfarojelkner, just having one person associated with the project15:06
jelknerin other words, the funds are dedicated15:06
lelkneralfarojelkner, all the money is going to the same place15:06
jelknerthat's true, lelkneralfaro15:07
jelknerbut the won't be spent the same way15:07
jelknerand we need to get transparent accounting worked out soon15:07
jelknerwe are asking folks to trust us with their donations15:08
jelknerwe need to publicly provided accounting of where it all goes15:08
jelknerlelkneralfaro, with the gnucash experience i have now from novalaciro15:08
jelknerwe should talk about how best to do that15:08
jelknerbut we want open books15:08
jelknerand good accounting15:08
jelknerits all been hand waving and under the table til now15:09
jelknerbut that stops once we begin our public coming out15:09
jelknersince we are seeking funding from strangers15:09
jelknernot just known friends15:09
lelkneralfarojelkner, so you want to keep it with all the users?15:10
jelknerlelkneralfaro, maybe i'm confused15:10
jelknerwhat do you mean?15:10
jelknerare you asking why we want a Libre Organize team?15:10
lelkneralfarojelkner, the team you created has a few users associated with it. 15:11
jelknerall of us15:11
jelknerall members, that is15:11
jelkner6 of us at present15:11
lelkneralfarojelkner, if we were to set it up so that someone can donate to novawebdev15:11
lelkneralfarojelkner, all the money would go to the same place15:12
jelkneryes, but novawebdev is a coop15:12
lelkneralfarojelkner, so it's a hassle to set it up with all the users15:12
jelknerLibre Organize is a project15:12
lelkneralfarojelkner, except for for appearances15:12
jelknerit is more than just appearances15:12
jelkneras we grow, we will be doing different things15:12
jelknerwe want people to be able to say, "I'm willing to fund work on that well defined project you just described."15:13
jelknerNot, "Here is money for y'all to do with as you please, I've got more than I need anyway."15:13
jelknerSo for now it is Libre Organize15:14
jelknerthere may be other projects we develop later15:14
jelknerand they will have their own separate place to donate15:14
jelknerand we need to keep our books clear15:14
jelknerso that money donated to one goes to that one alone.15:14
lelkneralfarojelkner, that's fine. but that project wouldn't necessarily need more than one user associated with it either if all the money goes to the same bank account15:16
jelknerahh, that is a totally different question15:16
jelknertheir doesn't seem to be projects on liberapay, only teams15:17
jelknerso i'm substituting a team for a project15:17
jelknerbut the public can see the members of the team, yes?15:17
jelkneri figured they could, which is why i thought all coop members should be listed15:17
lelkneralfarojelkner, yes, which is why it matters for appearances 15:17
lelkneralfarojelkner, if you think it matters15:18
replaceafilljelkner, left nrcerna a message about the vote15:18
jelknertell you what, lelkneralfaro 15:18
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jelknerthe best thing that can happen this month is for you to hit the streets and start talking to customers15:18
jelknerit matters what they think, not what i think15:18
jelkneri'm just guessing15:18
ubuntouristAll aboard train 134 leaving for Philly in 7 minutes...15:19
jelknerubuntourist, i have a lot of exciting news!15:19
ubuntouristYou usually do. ;-/15:19
jelkner1. We have an ASL teacher at ACC who will be teaching ASL classes here15:19
ubuntouristWonder if it's anyone I know...15:19
ubuntourist(Probably not.)15:20
jelknerShe was at our first staff meeting with two interpreters in tow15:20
jelkneri told her i want to start learning ASL this year15:20
ubuntouristSo, a native signer then, one assumes.15:20
jelkner+115:20
jelknershe is deaf15:20
jelknerbut she speaks very well15:21
jelknerstill, she will have an interpreter with her in class15:21
jelkner2. Sam Little is working on an electric car project15:21
ubuntouristDon't think I know Sam, but that sounds like fun.15:22
jelknerubuntourist, can you please vote?15:22
jelkneri told the ASL teacher about you15:22
jelknerand said i wanted to introduce you15:22
jelknerbut there is a serious problem15:22
ubuntourist? I thought I was up-to-date on voting...15:22
jelknershe only teaches here in the AM block :-(15:23
jelkneri told her, that is going to be a problem for kevin15:23
ubuntourist(checking vote now)15:23
ubuntouristSite loading extremely slowly... but loading.15:23
ubuntouristThe background graphic is loading one row of pixels at a time.15:24
ubuntourist(about 0.5 through.)15:25
jelknerooh, you won't have the same nice experience i did then15:25
lelkneralfarojelkner, ubuntourist, replaceafill how do you all feel about sending sensitive information like bank account info over email?15:25
jelknerubuntourist, to clarify, he means our novawebdev account15:25
ubuntouristlelkneralfaro, as someone who's had my identity "thefted" once, while believing myself careful, pretty opposed to it.  In spite of theoretical encryptions.15:26
lelkneralfaroubuntourist, cool, id prefer to play it safe as well. so what's the best way to share that sort of info then?15:27
replaceafillACTION goes to pick up his daughter, bb in ~4015:28
ubuntouristlelkneralfaro, at the moment, I believe replaceafill, marco and I are comfy with GPG encrypted documents. However, there seems to be resistance to using that.15:29
ubuntouristlelkneralfaro, The question then: With whom, how often, and why? I don't have any immediate answers but the questions might help me think about some.15:30
lelkneralfaroubuntourist, in order to set up our liberapay team everyone needs to set up stripe accounts with our novawebdev banking info15:31
lelkneralfaroubuntourist, so it won't be often and just among us people who know and trust each other15:31
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ubuntouristBleah. I was hoping I'd get a response from the LiberaPay people about their PayPal timeline. Loathe to set up more online access to moneys.15:33
lelkneralfarojelkner, yeah I'm leaning towards having people drop off the team and just having you or I who have already set up our accounts15:34
lelkneralfarojelkner, avoid the hassle and the sending of sensitive info over email15:34
jelkneryou know, lelkneralfaro, they can already access it in our shared drive15:35
ubuntouristI'll pester about PayPal, since I did finally get forced into using that, and the LiberaPay site says "Coming Soon.15:35
jelkner+115:35
jelknerlelkneralfaro, i'm looking into ownCloud15:36
lelkneralfarojelkner, fair enough15:36
jelknersince Dropbox won't support my encrypted partitions or virtual machines after november15:36
ubuntourist(Not crazy 'bout that either: Shared documents on Google.  On the other hand, ownCloud may be promising. Does that use the NextCloud application?)15:36
ubuntourist(P.S. Google AND Dropbox. I forgot to mention Dropbox.)15:37
ubuntouristAnd... I think my wifi may have gone away... quiet here and NWD elections page not loading...15:39
jelknerso i figured now is the time to switch to a free software platform15:40
ubuntouristAh. There we are. Vote cast.15:42
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jelknerall we need now is nrcerna, and we can close the election15:43
jelknerubuntourist, 9 am start15:43
jelkner2 1/2 hours from arlington15:43
ubuntouristjelkner: Non sequitor... You're channeling Flint. Leaving Arlington at 9:00? Arriving Philly at 9:00? 15:46
jelknerthat's when it starts, yes?15:48
jelknerwe are here together talking15:48
jelknerand i can't walk and chew gum at the same time15:48
jelknerso, ubuntourist, just so you know what's happening15:48
jelknerhrodriguez, zOnny, and i will meet mjsir911 and dad at cvs at 6:30 am15:52
jelknershould arrive at conference around 9 am15:52
jelknerreplaceafill, are you here or away?15:54
lelkneralfarojelkner, i think he's still picking up his daughter15:55
ubuntouristjelkner, Yes. FOSSCON starts at 9:00, but that doesn't always correspond with your travels. (And 9:00 - 10:20 is "mingle and nosh" time. Opening keynote begins at 10:20.15:56
jelknerunderstood15:57
jelknerbut mingle and nosh we want to attend15:58
jelknerso we are shooting for 9 am15:58
ubuntouristreplaceafill left to pick up daughter circa 15:28. ETA 16:0015:58
jelknerwith the wonderful understanding that if traffic is unpredictable15:58
jelknerwe won't miss the keynote15:58
jelknerso, ubuntourist we are on to the presentation15:58
ubuntouristjelkner, absolutely! I'm a big fan of the mingle and nosh. Best part. Other than swag. ;-)15:58
ubuntouristjelkner, My plan for the presentation: Look stupid and say nothing. Play to my strengths.16:00
jelknerubuntourist, what are the logistics for our lightening talk16:00
jelkneris it on your laptop?16:00
jelknerit would be good if a few of us had it ready16:00
jelknerso we have options based on connector type and such16:00
ubuntouristjelkner, I looked (and corrected one spelling error) but did not download. Will do so now.16:00
jelkneri'm assuming hdmi16:00
jelkneri only have that16:01
ubuntouristjelkner, Oh. Right. HDMI. My machine is wacky about that. 16:01
jelknerone important thing missing is the liberapay16:01
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jelknerlelkneralfaro, can you add that?16:01
ubuntouristI forgot that I need to buy a better stupid dongle.16:02
mjsir911What are we trying to get out of this presentation? Do we want to have people hack on / use libreorganize? jelkner mentioned liberapay, we want people to just donate to us?16:06
lelkneralfarojelkner, add it where?16:06
mjsir911should we include an easily rememberable link on the presentation?16:06
mjsir911ubuntourist: thoughts?16:10
ubuntouristmjsir911, Methinks the better answer there would be a link to a more narrative version of the presentation, together with a repeat of the [Dontate] button (see issue filed).16:12
mjsir911how does libreorganize.org pointing at a view-only version of the presentation sound? or do we have this "more narrative version" somewhere already?16:14
ubuntouristSmall sidetrack to prevent possible bad decisions: jelkner, compare ownCloud and NextCloud before deciding (if you have not already). 16:15
ubuntouristjelkner, one source of comparison https://www.1and1.com/digitalguide/server/tools/owncloud-vs-nextcloud-a-comparison/16:15
mjsir911ubuntourist: do you have a preference?16:17
ubuntouristmjsir911, No narrative version I'm aware of. I still think presentations are a bit "thin" after the fact, though as an immediate solution, it works.16:17
ubuntouristmjsir911, ownCloud vs. nextCloud? none yet, other than the fact that I recently downloaded the nextCloud client, and Arch doesn't want both ownCloud and nextCloud clients simultaneously.16:18
ubuntouristmjsir911, (package conflicts.)16:18
replaceafillACTION is back16:19
replaceafilljelkner, lelkneralfaro, ubuntourist, zOnny vote results published16:21
jelknerWoho!!16:22
jelknerWe have a new member16:22
jelknerACTION goes to add mr_german to the members groups16:23
jelknerreplaceafill, can you call him to let him know?16:23
replaceafillunfortunately the new member notified me he won't be around today, but i'll give him a call16:23
jelknerbtw. zOnny is getting ready to setup the website for Ampara16:23
jelknerhe could use mr_german's help16:24
replaceafillwhat do you need from him zOnny?16:24
jelkneri told him we want the two of them to do this without help from replaceafill 16:24
zOnnyreplaceafill: the confirmation that I will take the project16:25
zOnny*confirmation16:25
replaceafillzOnny, didn't you agree on him taking it?16:25
replaceafillzOnny, why was him doing the estimate then?16:26
zOnnyreplaceafill: because I was assuming that he is going to do it16:26
jelknerreplaceafill, it doesn't look like i can add a member to the members group16:27
zOnnyreplaceafill: I am confused as well 16:27
replaceafilljelkner, can you clafiry the confusion?16:27
jelknernever mind16:27
jelknermegamenu16:27
ubuntouristExperiencing "turbulence". Typing and reading (not to mention connectivity) becoming awkward.16:27
jelknerdone16:28
replaceafilljelkner, how soon does this new website need to be done?16:28
replaceafilljelkner, zOnny German is away today16:28
jelkneri'm thinking that presents an opportunity for zOnny to see what he can do on his own, yes?16:28
jelknerwe will want both of them to respond with ease to requests like this16:29
jelknersince the flood gates will soon be open!16:29
replaceafillzOnny, are you at least confortable with German's estimates?16:29
jelknero16:29
jelknerreplaceafill, why that question?16:29
zOnnyreplaceafill: I don't want to take the project without his agreement on it16:30
jelknertoo late for that16:30
replaceafilljelkner, because zOnny wasn't involved in that conversation16:30
zOnnyreplaceafill: I am fine with it16:30
jelknerwe already took it16:30
jelknerthis is where governance and process comes in, lelkneralfaro 16:30
zOnnyreplaceafill: I just was requested to do it 16:30
jelknerwe couldn't very well tell her now that we don't want to take once we told her we would and quoted her a price16:30
replaceafilljelkner, nobody said we are rejecting it now...16:31
ubuntouristBTW, I know it's late but mayhaps a live "wave" from those not in Philly tomorrow might put a bit of icing on the talk tomorrow. Then again, 5 minutes doesn't leave any time for "technical difficulties". So, perhaps more trouble than it's worth.16:31
jelknerbtw. lelkneralfaro and replaceafill, my friend in nj who is paying for this thought the price was too low.16:32
jelknerjust some feedback16:32
replaceafilljelkner, it just seems to me a bit unfair to throw zOnny in without prior agreement16:32
jelknercool16:32
zOnnyreplaceafill: 1+16:32
replaceafilljelkner, i know both of them will probably be fine with this16:32
replaceafilljelkner, in the end16:32
replaceafilljelkner, but as you said, this doesn't seem like a good "process"16:32
jelknertrue, you weren't hear when i asked him if he could do it.16:33
replaceafilljelkner, or German16:33
jelkner+116:33
zOnnyreplaceafill: I don't want to take something that we already discused16:33
replaceafillzOnny, it's fine16:33
replaceafillzOnny, we all should be... swappable :D16:33
replaceafillzOnny, ideally16:33
replaceafillanyway16:33
jelknercommunication and good, friendly, respectful processes are going to be so key to our success going forward16:33
replaceafilli just called German and he didn't answer16:33
jelknerbut we do need to be swappable16:34
zOnnyreplaceafill: I would like mr_german's respond on it16:34
jelknerthat is really important16:34
jelkneragain, we will probably need brief, regular, dev meetings to handle who is doing what16:34
replaceafillzOnny, what's your plan if we get German's ok?16:34
replaceafillzOnny, start *today*?16:34
jelknerstand up meetings to dispact work as it comes in16:34
replaceafillzOnny, continue tomorrow?16:34
replaceafilljelkner, +116:34
jelknerfor that we need regular hours16:34
jelknerso people know when to expect to find each other16:35
replaceafilljelkner, +116:35
jelknerwe've done well16:35
replaceafilljelkner, to be fair to German he was here in the morning16:35
jelknerwe didn't over engineer things before they were needed16:35
jelknerbut now they are16:35
replaceafilljelkner, if we have known your plans16:35
replaceafilljelkner, we could have decided differently16:36
jelkneri didn't at all mean to even imply he should be here now16:36
replaceafilljelkner, ok16:36
jelkneri'm just saying we don't have regular hours16:36
replaceafilljelkner, "fair enough"16:36
replaceafill:)16:36
jelknerlol16:36
replaceafillzOnny, you didn't answer my question?16:36
zOnnyreplaceafill: how I can start a project once I know that mr_german took it16:37
replaceafillzOnny, until today we have not received a single email from the project16:37
replaceafillzOnny, unless i'm out of some thread16:37
zOnnyreplaceafill: it is not about start it today16:37
replaceafillzOnny, if that's the case, i bet he hasn't started anything16:38
zOnnyreplaceafill: it is about who will do it16:38
replaceafillzOnny, so you're saying we don't need to rush the decision?16:38
zOnnyreplaceafill: correct16:38
replaceafillzOnny, cool, i'll drop it then16:38
replaceafilljelkner, zOnny let me know if you need anything from me16:39
zOnnyreplaceafill: I just was surprise with this 16:39
replaceafilljelkner, ubuntourist, zOnny i just gave German superuser in the site16:40
jelknerubuntourist, we are dividing up the slides16:42
jelknerwe don't say anything on the title slide16:42
jelkneri'll take slide 2 if no one else is chomping at the bit to have it16:43
jelknerubuntourist, any slides strike your fancy?16:44
jelknerubuntourist, are you here?16:45
ubuntouristjelkner, you know me: Terrified by audiences. If I go to Monk's first, I *guess* #5.16:48
ubuntourist(Now entering Wilmington, Delaware.)16:58
ubuntouristjelkner, Do I recall reading that your chariot becomes a pumpkin at 5:00 today?16:58
ubuntouristjelkner, if so, perhaps time to wrap up. (I've still got ~30 minutes if train schedule holds.)16:59
ubuntourist(Just announced: Philadelphia 30th Street station next ~ 20 minutes.)17:02
ubuntouristActually, I think I'll call it quits now. Sun glaring off computer screen.17:03
jelknerreplaceafill, heading home17:03
jelknerwish us well tomorrow17:03
replaceafilljelkner, cool17:03
replaceafilljelkner, good luck17:03
replaceafilljelkner, break both legs17:03
replaceafill:D17:03
jelknerlol17:03
replaceafillACTION goes to get lunch, bb in ~1h17:10
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