IRC log of #novawebdev for Saturday, 2018-09-22

*** replaceafill has joined #novawebdev10:49
*** jelkner has joined #novawebdev10:50
jelknergood morning, replaceafill!10:53
replaceafillgood morning jelkner10:53
jelknerhold on, replaceafill, talking with diego10:53
replaceafilljelkner, kk10:53
jelknerreplaceafill, what's the easiest way to share a little python script with you?11:01
jelknergit lab?11:01
replaceafilljelkner, https://paste.pound-python.org/ ?11:02
jelknerdo you see it?11:03
replaceafilljelkner, you need to paste the URL back11:03
replaceafilljelkner, here11:03
replaceafilljelkner, after you submitted, you got a new URL11:03
jelknerhttps://paste.pound-python.org/show/skCoJw42bdNcpkmbrucd/11:03
replaceafilllooking11:03
replaceafilljelkner, lol, i used a calculator for that :D11:04
replaceafilljelkner, your hourly rate is harcoded though ;)11:04
jelknerlol11:04
jelknerlook man, first draft11:04
jelknerit should be a constant11:05
jelknerRATE = 10011:05
replaceafilljelkner, yagni!11:05
jelknerlol11:05
replaceafilljelkner, that's one thing i wanted to talk to you11:05
replaceafilljelkner, today11:05
replaceafilljelkner, our rate for this11:05
jelknerok, shoot11:05
replaceafilljelkner, suddenly i'm really interested in this happening11:05
replaceafilljelkner, mostly because the offline functionality11:05
jelknerme too11:05
replaceafilljelkner, you know i'm a fan of XP spikes, right?11:06
replaceafilljelkner, well, i did some experimenting11:06
jelknerright11:06
replaceafilljelkner, quick and dirty11:06
jelkneryeah, the fun stuff ;-)11:06
replaceafilljelkner, and it opens a looooooooooooot of possibilities11:06
replaceafilljelkner, for libre organize11:06
jelkneryou bet it does!11:06
replaceafilljelkner, with a bit more of time i'd like to get offline voting11:06
jelknerlike i said man, if we're still in a year, we'll be here in 1011:07
jelknerbigger and better11:07
jelknersooooo....11:07
replaceafilljelkner, or notifications: a new election has been created11:07
replaceafilljelkner, so11:07
replaceafilljelkner, i'm thinking11:07
replaceafilljelkner, i'd be ok lowering that constant11:07
replaceafilljelkner, to be something that would make this happen11:07
jelknerhold on, replaceafill 11:08
jelknerquestion from diegot11:08
replaceafilljelkner, sure11:08
jelkneri told isaac $30K11:12
jelkneryou're math comes in under that11:12
jelknerthe other systems they are looking at are $250K11:13
jelknerso we are already cheap11:13
jelknerno need to lower our rate11:13
jelknerit is reaonsable11:13
replaceafilljelkner, ah ok11:13
jelknerif lelkneralfaro is able to do all the paperwork and make this work11:13
jelknerhe gets the full time job (30 hours a week) he wants and a way to live and follow his dreams at the same time11:14
jelknerthe $100 rate11:14
jelknerbuilds in the costs of writing proposals, attending meetings, etc.11:14
jelkneras well as developing the software11:14
replaceafilljelkner, support11:14
jelkner+111:14
jelkneryes, we are starting to act like a real business ;-)11:15
jelknerthe only time we should lower our rate is for limited resource customers working for the revolution11:15
replaceafilljelkner, i understand11:15
jelknerwith enough success, we can do work for them for free sometimes11:15
jelknerthe NGO funding this is not such a customer11:16
jelknerisaac is11:16
jelknerbut not the funder11:16
jelknerif we come in too cheap we look like a joke11:16
replaceafilljelkner, yeah, i've been thinking isaac is our customer11:16
jelknerand may loose the contract for that reason11:16
replaceafilljelkner, i know he's looking for funding too11:16
jelkneri've told isaac numerous times11:17
jelknerthat if we are able to establish this relationship11:17
jelknerone of our concrete goals will be to train our first NOVA Web Development member from Liberia11:17
jelkneryou know i like to dream big11:17
jelknerto me, this presents the possibility to have a much broader impact in Africa11:18
jelknerto show how non-exploitative, just social relations are possible11:18
jelknerand cooperative worker ownership is the key to making that happen11:19
replaceafilljelkner, i bet there's a django developer out there :)11:19
jelkneri know there is11:19
jelknerand we will find her! ;-)11:19
replaceafilljelkner, :)11:19
jelknerspeaking of which, i have 6 of my students at the django girls workshop today11:20
jelknerincluding heylin11:20
replaceafilljelkner, oh, that's today?11:20
replaceafilljelkner, nice11:20
jelkneri told them to email me during the day if they think it is ok for me to crash the after party at 6 pm11:20
jelkneri am having a fantastic year11:20
jelknermy students are amazing11:20
jelknerand school is so much fun11:21
jelknerso, to sum up our conversation, replaceafill 11:21
replaceafilljelkner, ok, any other comment on the proposal? i guess i should pass the ball to lelkneralfaro11:21
jelknerlet's to with $10011:21
jelknertake the high estimate for days on each of your parts11:22
jelkner+111:22
jelknerpass this to lelkneralfaro11:22
jelknerwe will have the understanding that he only gets paid if he closes the deal11:22
jelknerso then it will be up to him11:22
replaceafilljelkner, cool11:22
jelknerif he does get paid, so do the rest of us11:22
jelknermeaning replaceafill, zOnny, mr_german11:23
jelknerbtw.11:23
jelknercan you please ask nrcerna for a number11:23
jelkner?11:23
replaceafilljelkner, ah ok11:23
jelknerwe need to find out what we need to bring in so she can work for us full time11:23
replaceafilljelkner, do you think we could get enough work for her yet?11:24
jelknernot yet11:24
jelknerbut if we got both this job and the other one for monrovia11:24
jelknerdefinitely11:24
replaceafilljelkner, i guess taking a leap of faith in her position is a bit more difficult, but yes i'll talk to her11:24
jelknerand we could use her in work like this11:24
replaceafilljelkner, i was thinking the same11:25
jelkneri'm not saying we should make the move yet11:25
replaceafilljelkner, satuday sprint design meeting flashback11:25
jelknerbut we need to know the target11:25
replaceafilljelkner, sure, i understand11:25
jelknercool11:25
replaceafilljelkner, i'll email lelkneralfaro11:25
jelknerok, i have emails to send and a student arriving for help in a few minutes11:25
jelknerplease do that, replaceafill 11:25
replaceafilljelkner, thanks for your time11:25
jelknerexcellent!11:25
jelknerthank you!!11:26
replaceafilljelkner, ttyl11:26
*** lelkneralfaro has joined #novawebdev12:02
lelkneralfaroreplaceafill, ping12:07
replaceafilllelkneralfaro, pong12:08
lelkneralfaroreplaceafill, I have a few questions about news from Isaac and the Liberia project12:08
replaceafilllelkneralfaro, sure12:08
lelkneralfaroreplaceafill, not directly related to the quiz program proposal, but I just want to know what's going on12:09
lelkneralfaroreplaceafill, so has Isaac heard back and sure that he has the job?12:09
replaceafilllelkneralfaro, afaik no, he's not heard back yet12:09
lelkneralfaroreplaceafill, and where did this quiz program proposal come from? and what happened to the other things he mentioned he desired before and that we have been speaking about?12:10
replaceafilllelkneralfaro, the quiz proposal is from a different funding source if i understand correctly12:10
replaceafilllelkneralfaro, he mentioned a ministry (government) and him and jelkner have been referring to getting funding from NGOs too12:11
replaceafilllelkneralfaro, so this is different from the government position he's waiting on12:11
lelkneralfaroreplaceafill, ahh okay. and do you know if this is connected to whether or not he hears back?12:11
lelkneralfaroreplaceafill, and is confirmed?12:11
replaceafilllelkneralfaro, no, this is not connected12:11
lelkneralfaroreplaceafill, ahh that's good news12:12
replaceafilllelkneralfaro, he told me himself on thursday12:12
replaceafilllelkneralfaro, it's a separate innitiave12:12
replaceafillinnitiative12:12
replaceafillor however you spell that :D12:12
lelkneralfaroreplaceafill, cool. "initiative" :) 12:12
replaceafilllelkneralfaro, thanks12:12
lelkneralfaroreplaceafill, this seems like a good opportunity and project12:13
replaceafilllelkneralfaro, +112:13
lelkneralfaroreplaceafill, okay cool. that's all the questions that I had12:13
lelkneralfaroreplaceafill, thanks112:13
replaceafilllelkneralfaro, just for the record, as i told Kevin this morning12:13
lelkneralfaroreplaceafill, *thanks!12:13
replaceafilllelkneralfaro, jelkner funded the quiz component for schooltool quiz back in the day, 3-4 years ago i think12:14
replaceafilllelkneralfaro, isaac saw that and i think used it a bit12:14
replaceafilllelkneralfaro, he even asked us to implement self registration back then to schooltool12:14
replaceafilllelkneralfaro, so students could "practice" back in liberia12:15
replaceafilllelkneralfaro, that didn't get much traction though12:15
replaceafilllelkneralfaro, hopefully this one will12:15
replaceafilllelkneralfaro, at that time it wasn't "mobile" at all12:15
replaceafilllelkneralfaro, this is what has made this very attractive to him12:16
replaceafilllelkneralfaro, the ability to use it online would be wonderful he said12:16
replaceafilllelkneralfaro, and if it's a pwa (desktop + mobile at the same time)12:16
replaceafilllelkneralfaro, teachers could use it in schools too12:16
replaceafilllelkneralfaro, using desktop browsers12:16
replaceafilllelkneralfaro, so lot's of win-win-win... to promote :P12:16
replaceafillACTION doen12:17
replaceafilldone*12:17
lelkneralfaroreplaceafill, definitely! sounds great and thanks for the background info. 12:17
lelkneralfaroACTION done too12:17
lelkneralfarolelkneralfaro, I'll work on this proposal now and I'll be on irc for a few hours12:17
lelkneralfaroreplaceafill, ping... quick question12:30
replaceafilllelkneralfaro, pong12:30
lelkneralfaroreplaceafill, in the parts where you assess the risk of failure. are you saying that the features have a higher risk of failure because they depend on the other features, or is the risk level independent of the fact that they features depend on other features?12:31
lelkneralfaroreplaceafill, just trying to have a clear understanding of what language to use12:32
replaceafilllelkneralfaro, it's both, feature dependency and our own knowledge on how to approach it12:32
replaceafilllelkneralfaro, we haven't done offline syncronization for example12:32
lelkneralfaroreplaceafill, okay I understand, thanks. 12:33
replaceafilllelkneralfaro, np12:33
lelkneralfaroreplaceafill, completely unrelated question...12:33
lelkneralfaroreplaceafill, where did you learn "facepalm?"12:34
replaceafilllelkneralfaro, emojis12:34
lelkneralfaroreplaceafill, lol, cool. I saw you type that the other day and was wondering where you may have picked it up12:34
replaceafilllelkneralfaro, :D12:35
replaceafilllelkneralfaro, sharing passwords here is a facepalm action ;)12:35
lelkneralfaroreplaceafill, for sure, it was perfectly appropriate. 12:35
*** zOnny has joined #novawebdev12:35
lelkneralfaroreplaceafill, :D12:35
lelkneralfaroACTION goes to get snack bb in 512:36
lelkneralfaroACTION back12:43
jelknerzOnny, where are you?12:52
jelkneroh zOnny, Hello World! ;-)12:53
zOnnyjelkner: Hello World :D12:56
jelknerwhere are you, zOnny?12:56
jelkneri'm at the central libary12:57
zOnnyjelkner: at home 12:57
jelknerwhere we used to hang out last summer12:57
jelkneroh, ok12:57
jelknerjust checking12:57
zOnnyjelkner: np12:57
jelkneri'm here til they kick me out at 5 pm, zOnny 12:57
jelknerthen i'm hoping to crash the Django Girls after party12:57
jelknersee you monday, zOnny 12:58
zOnnyjelkner: I would like to be there but I am teaching my brother how to use the CLI12:58
jelknernice, zOnny!12:58
jelknermaybe you can get him interested in web development12:59
jelknerlelkneralfaro, expect an email of introduction of you and diego shortly12:59
lelkneralfarojelkner, +112:59
zOnnyjelkner: I trying save his life from the gaming world.12:59
jelknerdiego's first task is to setup open collective for novalacior12:59
zOnny*a13:00
zOnny*am13:00
jelknergreat, zOnny 13:00
jelknerif anyone can do it, you can13:00
zOnnyjelkner: cool13:00
lelkneralfarojelkner, quick news update13:00
jelknerACTION is listening13:00
lelkneralfarojelkner, I received an email from candlewaster, the django co-op you met, replying to my message13:01
jelknerexcellent13:01
lelkneralfarojelkner, it just says they are interested in collaborating13:01
jelknerperfect13:01
jelknerthat is awesome news13:01
lelkneralfarojelkner, they are offering help if we need backup on a Django project13:01
jelknerthat is precisely what we wanted13:01
jelknerand they are in philly13:01
lelkneralfarojelkner, and that they are "desperate for a good designer to work with"13:02
jelknerso we have the possibility of meeting with them in person13:02
jelknerahh13:02
jelknerthat would be us13:02
lelkneralfarojelkner, well eventually...13:02
jelkner+113:02
jelknerif we are here in a year, we'll be here in 1013:02
lelkneralfarojelkner, cool, just wanted to let you know13:02
lelkneralfarojelkner, it seems you've latched on to another slogan :D13:03
jelknergreat. back to work for me13:03
jelknerlol13:03
jelkneri like slogans13:03
jelknerwe have one from our sprint that was a lot of fun13:03
jelknerreplaceafill knows what i'm talking about13:03
replaceafilljelkner, good enough13:03
jelkner+113:03
jelknerokie dokie13:04
jelkneri have much work to do13:04
jelkneri'll be in the channel13:04
jelknerbut please let me work unless you really need me13:04
jelkneras replaceafill reminds me often13:04
jelknertask switching is expensive13:04
jelknertty13:05
replaceafilllelkneralfaro, ping13:20
lelkneralfaroreplaceafill, pong13:20
replaceafilllelkneralfaro, i just realized i forgot to include one cost in the proposal13:20
replaceafilllelkneralfaro, email service13:20
replaceafilllelkneralfaro, shouldn't affect it too much13:20
lelkneralfaroreplaceafill, I haven't gotten to the cost part yet anyway13:21
lelkneralfaroreplaceafill, so that won't hurt me13:21
replaceafilllelkneralfaro, we could go with a free gmail account, but since we're below the budget goal i'll look for some other alternatives13:21
replaceafilllelkneralfaro, i'll ping you once i update the doc13:21
lelkneralfaroreplaceafill, cool, thanks13:22
replaceafilllelkneralfaro, cost added as Email in the infrastructure cost part13:31
lelkneralfaroreplaceafill, great. ty13:31
replaceafillbrb13:33
replaceafillACTION is back13:35
lelkneralfaroreplaceafill, ping13:51
replaceafilllelkneralfaro, pong13:51
lelkneralfaroreplaceafill, I have a question about customer service and documentation on this project13:51
lelkneralfaroreplaceafill, in your experience with schooltool did users need to contact developers to fix things or request help?13:52
replaceafilllelkneralfaro, yes13:52
lelkneralfaroreplaceafill, and do you think we should be writing up documentation on how to sue this tool?13:52
replaceafilllelkneralfaro, we did it through launchpad13:52
lelkneralfaroreplaceafill, *use13:52
replaceafilllelkneralfaro, i don't expect to be too difficult to use, but yes we should13:53
replaceafilllelkneralfaro, it's not very complex13:53
replaceafilllelkneralfaro, the process for either adding content (questions) or practicing quizzes is very linear13:53
lelkneralfaroreplaceafill, but we should add that time to the estimate nonetheless. 13:53
replaceafilllelkneralfaro, +113:53
lelkneralfaroreplaceafill, any idea how long you think it might take?13:54
replaceafilllelkneralfaro, 10 hours a month?13:54
lelkneralfaroreplaceafill, for documentation?13:54
replaceafilllelkneralfaro, for both13:54
replaceafilllelkneralfaro, documentation and user support13:54
replaceafilllelkneralfaro, i think you could document the app in 2-3 days13:55
lelkneralfaroreplaceafill, okay cool. you answered my next question with that last comment13:55
jelknerlelkneralfaro, do you have a minute?13:56
lelkneralfaroreplaceafill, final question (hopefully), did launchpad play the role that we use gitlab for?13:56
lelkneralfarojelkner, yeah13:56
replaceafilllelkneralfaro, correct13:56
replaceafilllelkneralfaro, issue tracker13:57
jelknerlelkneralfaro, i sent the email introducing diego and you13:57
jelknerit told him his first task was to figure out how pay him the 10 hours for october through open collective13:57
jelknerit would be great if i could do that with you as well13:58
jelknerso, compare notes, lelkneralfaro 13:58
lelkneralfarojelkner, after I'm done speaking with replaceafill 13:58
lelkneralfaroreplaceafill, +1 cool ty13:58
lelkneralfaroACTION done13:58
lelkneralfarojelkner, alright now I'm ready, how may I help you?13:58
jelknersorry13:58
jelknerlook what i just wrote13:58
jelknerand the email i sent you and diego13:58
lelkneralfarojelkner, yeah I just saw it, sounds good to me13:58
jelknerbut i have another important point13:58
jelknerif all goes well, this will be a moot point13:59
jelknersince we'll be getting gigs so fast you'll fill up all 30 hours13:59
jelknerbut it is important to me that we have a clear understanding13:59
jelknersince we already have gallaudet14:00
jelknerwe know you can just bill for your hours on that14:00
jelknerbut on the liberia proposals14:00
jelkneryou can only get paid for your time if we get the contracts14:00
jelknerdoes that make sense?14:00
lelkneralfarojelkner, I understand. that is fine wiht me14:00
lelkneralfarojelkner, it does14:00
jelknercool14:00
jelknerok, that's all i had14:01
lelkneralfarojelkner, cool. I'll get back to the proposal now14:01
jelkner+114:01
replaceafilloops, people included in the support@ email should have received a test email, feel free to ignore it14:06
replaceafilli'm trying the sendgrid email integration14:07
lelkneralfaroreplaceafill, thanks for letting me know to ignore, I did receive it. 14:07
replaceafillACTION adds himself to support@14:07
lelkneralfaroACTION steps away for 5 min14:10
replaceafillbrb14:12
replaceafillACTION is back14:28
lelkneralfaroreplaceafill, I've completed what I'm calling the second draft of the WASSCEPASS14 proposal15:01
lelkneralfaroreplaceafill, https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1CxvteZBcmVmeuFfljN2JVNzmOa3Vyczu15:01
lelkneralfaroreplaceafill, we should check in with Isaac to see if the is the organization from which we will be applying for funds has a preferred proposal format15:03
lelkneralfaroreplaceafill, well *I* should check in with Isaac that is :)15:03
replaceafilllelkneralfaro, wow, user support really blow it up :O15:04
replaceafilllelkneralfaro, but it looks good15:05
replaceafilllelkneralfaro, nice work15:05
replaceafilllelkneralfaro, i'd say this is "good enough" to show Isaac15:05
replaceafilllelkneralfaro, and ask him your question15:05
lelkneralfaroreplaceafill, well considering that is our motto I'm happy with that :D15:05
replaceafilllelkneralfaro, :D15:06
lelkneralfaroreplaceafill, I'll tell that to our potential customers when I meet with them. you should go with us, we're good enough15:06
replaceafilllelkneralfaro, "we're not good at it. we're just good enough"15:06
lelkneralfaroreplaceafill, :)15:07
jelknerping, replaceafill 15:07
lelkneralfaroreplaceafill, alright I'm going to take 15 before emailing Isaac15:07
lelkneralfaroACTION back in 1515:07
replaceafilljelkner, pong15:07
jelknerheylin emailed15:07
jelknerlooks like i'm going to the Django Girls after party ;-)15:08
jelknerso, i've been thinking...15:08
replaceafilljelkner, enjoy!15:08
jelknerif we can go to pycon next year15:08
jelknerwe should do a poster session15:08
jelkner"Saving the World with Python"15:08
jelknerreplaceafill, you know about the tummy.com sticker, right?15:09
replaceafilljelkner, no15:09
jelknerShawn, from Tummy.com gave out stickers several years ago15:09
jelknerthat read15:09
jelkner"Python will save the World!  I don't know how, but it will."15:10
jelkneri have one on my laptop15:10
replaceafilljelkner, :D15:10
jelknerit's a great sticker15:10
replaceafillhttps://c1.staticflickr.com/6/5285/5318304839_6b1ab51db5_b.jpg15:11
jelknerit captures the optimism, vision, and humor so much a part of the community15:11
jelknerso anyway, we at NOVA Web Development are part of the answer to the statement "I don't know how"15:12
jelknerif we get the Liberia gig, and we continue developing Libre Organize15:13
jelknerwe will have a real story to tell15:13
jelknera poster session would be the best way to do that15:13
jelkneranyway, just wanted to share my continuing fantasies ;-)15:13
replaceafilljelkner, :D15:13
jelknerok, i need to eat15:13
replaceafillACTION too15:14
jelknerso i'm going to sing off for 45 minutes15:14
jelknerbb then15:14
replaceafilli'll sing off for a bit more, but i'll have email just in case15:14
jelknercool15:14
jelknerlater gater15:14
replaceafilllater15:14
replaceafillACTION goes out for lunch15:14
*** jelkner has joined #novawebdev16:01
jelknerACTION is being kicked out of the library.  Off to the Django Girls party!16:41
*** ubuntourist has joined #novawebdev18:31
ubuntourist Cooperatives and Community Wealth Building Committee Meeting18:31
ubuntouristMonday, September 2418:31
ubuntourist19:00 – 21:0018:31
ubuntourist4704 Columbia Pike Arlington, VA 2220418:31

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