| *** jelkner has joined #novawebdev | 10:11 | |
| jelkner | !remind | 10:11 |
|---|---|---|
| *-* nothing to see here *-* | 10:11 | |
| jelkner | !remind Can jelkner be removed from billing? | 10:12 |
| 'Can jelkner be removed from billing?' added to message queue | 10:12 | |
| *** ubuntourist has joined #novawebdev | 12:14 | |
| jelkner | ubuntourist, good morning! | 12:15 |
| jelkner | !remind | 12:15 |
| Can jelkner be removed from billing? (jelkner) | 12:15 | |
| jelkner | ubuntourist, I added "Can jelkner be removed from billing?" to our agenda tomorrow | 12:16 |
| jelkner | so we can follow up with this then | 12:16 |
| ubuntourist | jelkner, I don't have an opinion one way or the other on that. | 12:18 |
| jelkner | i didn't expect you would, ubuntourist | 12:28 |
| jelkner | but you emailed me, so i'm responding ;-) | 12:28 |
| ubuntourist | jelkner, Well, since the message went out to "members" my interpretation was: | 12:30 |
| ubuntourist | jelkner, "Hmmm... On the surface, this appears to be a technical problem..." It may be more than technical, but, that's for tomorrow. | 12:31 |
| ubuntourist | jelkner, Reading the BCI message now... I don't understand what Geoff is asking others to do in WG #1. I mean: | 12:34 |
| ubuntourist | It's a bit like asking a the construction co-op to be part of a working group that develops LibreOrganize... | 12:35 |
| ubuntourist | Other than saying "Well, our construction company would like our web site to do X" how is it that they would help develop it? | 12:36 |
| ubuntourist | So, when Geoff says that they want participants to help develop grant-writing services... Um, I thought that's why we were going to them... | 12:37 |
| ubuntourist | If we knew how, we'd be doing / offering those sorts of services. | 12:37 |
| ubuntourist | (During the BCI meeting, as Geoff mentioned, I said I'd feel more comfortable -- slightly -- in WG #2.) | 12:39 |
| ubuntourist | And I added our info to the list that Rae set up. I think I sent the spread-sheet link in the post-meeting mail that I sent to members. | 12:40 |
| jelkner | i like the analogy, ubuntourist | 12:49 |
| jelkner | we need to get help with the "business" parts of our business, and soon | 12:49 |
| jelkner | not only taxes and finance, but *mainly*, finding work | 12:50 |
| jelkner | i said as much to neto | 12:50 |
| jelkner | let's see what happens | 12:50 |
| jelkner | i plan to ask everyone in the co-op movement i can for help | 12:50 |
| jelkner | and trust that somewhere, somehow, we will get the help we need in time | 12:51 |
| ubuntourist | Should I reply to Geoff et al? | 12:51 |
| jelkner | if you want to | 12:51 |
| ubuntourist | Or would that only muddy the waters? | 12:51 |
| jelkner | it might | 12:51 |
| jelkner | why not wait for him to reply to my email | 12:51 |
| jelkner | ? | 12:51 |
| jelkner | i was certainly verbose enough ;-) | 12:52 |
| ubuntourist | I started to write something, but then backed away thinking "Too many cooks". | 12:52 |
| jelkner | +1 | 12:52 |
| jelkner | i got this, ubuntourist | 12:52 |
| ubuntourist | OK. I will hold on that. (I was going to make a similar analogy to Geoff addressing the "How exactly are we supposed to help with something we know nothing about doing" | 12:53 |
| jelkner | although to be fair, ubuntourist, helping with something we know nothing about has been the whole history of NOVA Web Development ;-) | 13:10 |
| jelkner | btw. Episode 6 of Uncle Bob's Clean Code series, TDD Part 1, is the best presentation of the arguments for TDD i have yet seen | 13:11 |
| jelkner | i have it, ubuntourist, if you'd like to watch | 13:12 |
| ubuntourist | jelkner, I should. | 13:12 |
| jelkner | hold on... | 13:12 |
| ubuntourist | I haven't watched any of his other stuff... To quote Willie Wonka (as portrayed by Gene Wilder not Johnny Depp): | 13:13 |
| ubuntourist | "So much time! So little to do! ...No. Wait. Strike that. Reverse it." | 13:13 |
| jelkner | well this would be the best one to start with | 13:14 |
| jelkner | i'm asking stefan to watch it too, so we are on the same page | 13:14 |
| jelkner | it is uploading now | 13:14 |
| jelkner | expect a link in private chat shortly... | 13:14 |
| ubuntourist | On the Altair front, senility is a terrible thing: I have a MUCH more current serial communications thing I wrote. | 13:14 |
| jelkner | LoL | 13:15 |
| ubuntourist | I wrote something to talk to HacDC's scanning electron microscope's vacuum gauge. I think talking to the Altair is gonna be a piece of cake. | 13:16 |
| jelkner | btw on that, i'll need to drop it off at your place when it arrives | 13:16 |
| ubuntourist | (Famous last words.) | 13:16 |
| ubuntourist | And, since self-modifying code is a possibility, I think the way to work things is: | 13:17 |
| ubuntourist | 1. Toggle in the "listener" from the front panel. Relatively short but still needs to be done manually. | 13:18 |
| ubuntourist | 2. Start the Python loader from the modern PC. | 13:19 |
| ubuntourist | 3. Supply the filename of the assembled binary 8080 machine code. | 13:19 |
| ubuntourist | 4. The program uploads | 13:20 |
| ubuntourist | 5. The python uploader sends an an additional bit of binary that overwrites part of the running listener on the altair | 13:20 |
| ubuntourist | 6. The "listener" now stops listening and instead jumps to the start of the uploaded binary. | 13:21 |
| ubuntourist | Voila! The new program written by the students is up and running. | 13:21 |
| jelkner | one question, is there a way to get the listener to become a sender? | 13:22 |
| jelkner | how do students see output, other than blinking lights? | 13:22 |
| ubuntourist | jelkner, They write it into THEIR code... | 13:22 |
| jelkner | to send back data over the serial connection | 13:23 |
| jelkner | that can be seen as text? | 13:23 |
| ubuntourist | (I mean, yes, the listener could also be a talker, but I think it would be more useful to have the students write that part.) | 13:23 |
| ubuntourist | yup. | 13:23 |
| jelkner | cool | 13:23 |
| jelkner | this is soooo much better a way to learn the course content than the 700 page tome NVCC typically uses for the course | 13:24 |
| jelkner | BORING!! | 13:24 |
| jelkner | students would not learn much from it | 13:24 |
| ubuntourist | Mind you, this is still somewhat in the "poly-elkner fantasy stage". My gut says I have the wherewithall to pull that off quickly | 13:24 |
| jelkner | but doing this, they are learning a lot | 13:24 |
| jelkner | oh, btw, i should let chris meyers, creator of python for fun | 13:25 |
| jelkner | know about what you're doing | 13:25 |
| jelkner | he loves this kind of thing | 13:25 |
| ubuntourist | but, it's untested. (Mind you, the assembler is working GREAT!) | 13:25 |
| jelkner | that in and of itself is a huge victory | 13:25 |
| jelkner | big shame we can't be doing this at HacDC | 13:26 |
| ubuntourist | Yeah. | 13:26 |
| jelkner | its such a HacDC type project | 13:26 |
| jelkner | So we'll call it a virtual HacDC project | 13:26 |
| jelkner | we need pictures, a website, and such | 13:26 |
| ubuntourist | I don't want to jump the gun, but when you feel students are ready for it, I want to have them install the assembler on a Linux box | 13:26 |
| jelkner | did you get it, ubuntourist? | 13:27 |
| ubuntourist | I have the listings of the two example programs in the Operator's manual that I want to share with you first, and then, maybe, | 13:28 |
| jelkner | i've got to get back to work | 13:28 |
| ubuntourist | the students. | 13:28 |
| jelkner | so much to do | 13:28 |
| jelkner | did you get the link? | 13:28 |
| jelkner | i'll leave it up today | 13:28 |
| jelkner | so please grab it | 13:28 |
| jelkner | then i'll remove it | 13:28 |
| ubuntourist | Downloading now... | 13:28 |
| jelkner | sweet | 13:28 |
| jelkner | gotta go | 13:28 |
| jelkner | talk to you tomorrow | 13:29 |
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