IRC log of #novawebdev for Saturday, 2020-10-10

*** jelkner has joined #novawebdev10:11
jelkner!remind10:11
*-* nothing to see here *-*10:11
jelkner!remind Can jelkner be removed from billing?10:12
'Can jelkner be removed from billing?' added to message queue10:12
*** ubuntourist has joined #novawebdev12:14
jelknerubuntourist, good morning!12:15
jelkner!remind12:15
Can jelkner be removed from billing? (jelkner)12:15
jelknerubuntourist, I added "Can jelkner be removed from billing?" to our agenda tomorrow12:16
jelknerso we can follow up with this then12:16
ubuntouristjelkner, I don't have an opinion one way or the other on that. 12:18
jelkneri didn't expect you would, ubuntourist 12:28
jelknerbut you emailed me, so i'm responding ;-)12:28
ubuntouristjelkner, Well, since the message went out to "members" my interpretation was:12:30
ubuntouristjelkner, "Hmmm... On the surface, this appears to be a technical problem..." It may be more than technical, but, that's for tomorrow.12:31
ubuntouristjelkner, Reading the BCI message now... I don't understand what Geoff is asking others to do in WG #1. I mean:12:34
ubuntouristIt's a bit like asking a the construction co-op to be part of a working group that develops LibreOrganize...12:35
ubuntouristOther than saying "Well, our construction company would like our web site to do X" how is it that they would help develop it?12:36
ubuntouristSo, when Geoff says that they want participants to help develop grant-writing services... Um, I thought that's why we were going to them...12:37
ubuntouristIf we knew how, we'd be doing / offering those sorts of services.12:37
ubuntourist(During the BCI meeting, as Geoff mentioned, I said I'd feel more comfortable -- slightly -- in WG #2.)12:39
ubuntouristAnd I added our info to the list that Rae set up. I think I sent the spread-sheet link in the post-meeting mail that I sent to members.12:40
jelkneri like the analogy, ubuntourist12:49
jelknerwe need to get help with the "business" parts of our business, and soon12:49
jelknernot only taxes and finance, but *mainly*, finding work12:50
jelkneri said as much to neto12:50
jelknerlet's see what happens12:50
jelkneri plan to ask everyone in the co-op movement i can for help12:50
jelknerand trust that somewhere, somehow, we will get the help we need in time12:51
ubuntouristShould I reply to Geoff et al?12:51
jelknerif you want to12:51
ubuntouristOr would that only muddy the waters?12:51
jelknerit might12:51
jelknerwhy not wait for him to reply to my email12:51
jelkner?12:51
jelkneri was certainly verbose enough ;-)12:52
ubuntouristI started to write something, but then backed away thinking "Too many cooks".12:52
jelkner+112:52
jelkneri got this, ubuntourist 12:52
ubuntouristOK. I will hold on that. (I was going to make a similar analogy to Geoff addressing the "How exactly are we supposed to help with something we know nothing about doing"12:53
jelkneralthough to be fair, ubuntourist, helping with something we know nothing about has been the whole history of NOVA Web Development ;-)13:10
jelknerbtw. Episode 6 of Uncle Bob's Clean Code series, TDD Part 1, is the best presentation of the arguments for TDD i have yet seen13:11
jelkneri have it, ubuntourist, if you'd like to watch13:12
ubuntouristjelkner, I should. 13:12
jelknerhold on...13:12
ubuntouristI haven't watched any of his other stuff... To quote Willie Wonka (as portrayed by Gene Wilder not Johnny Depp):13:13
ubuntourist"So much time! So little to do! ...No. Wait. Strike that. Reverse it."13:13
jelknerwell this would be the best one to start with13:14
jelkneri'm asking stefan to watch it too, so we are on the same page13:14
jelknerit is uploading now13:14
jelknerexpect a link in private chat shortly...13:14
ubuntouristOn the Altair front, senility is a terrible thing: I have a MUCH more current serial communications thing I wrote.13:14
jelknerLoL13:15
ubuntouristI wrote something to talk to HacDC's scanning electron microscope's vacuum gauge. I think talking to the Altair is gonna be a piece of cake.13:16
jelknerbtw on that, i'll need to drop it off at your place when it arrives13:16
ubuntourist(Famous last words.)13:16
ubuntouristAnd, since self-modifying code is a possibility, I think the way to work things is:13:17
ubuntourist1. Toggle in the "listener" from the front panel. Relatively short but still needs to be done manually.13:18
ubuntourist2. Start the Python loader from the modern PC.13:19
ubuntourist3. Supply the filename of the assembled binary 8080 machine code.13:19
ubuntourist4. The program uploads13:20
ubuntourist5. The python uploader sends an an additional bit of binary that overwrites part of the running listener on the altair13:20
ubuntourist6. The "listener" now stops listening and instead jumps to the start of the uploaded binary.13:21
ubuntouristVoila! The new program written by the students is up and running.13:21
jelknerone question, is there a way to get the listener to become a sender?13:22
jelknerhow do students see output, other than blinking lights?13:22
ubuntouristjelkner, They write it into THEIR code...13:22
jelknerto send back data over the serial connection13:23
jelknerthat can be seen as text?13:23
ubuntourist(I mean, yes, the listener could also be a talker, but I think it would be more useful to have the students write that part.)13:23
ubuntouristyup.13:23
jelknercool13:23
jelknerthis is soooo much better a way to learn the course content than the 700 page tome NVCC typically uses for the course13:24
jelknerBORING!!13:24
jelknerstudents would not learn much from it13:24
ubuntouristMind you, this is still somewhat in the "poly-elkner fantasy stage". My gut says I have the wherewithall to pull that off quickly13:24
jelknerbut doing this, they are learning a lot13:24
jelkneroh, btw, i should let chris meyers, creator of python for fun13:25
jelknerknow about what you're doing13:25
jelknerhe loves this kind of thing13:25
ubuntouristbut, it's untested.  (Mind you, the assembler is working GREAT!)13:25
jelknerthat in and of itself is a huge victory13:25
jelknerbig shame we can't be doing this at HacDC13:26
ubuntouristYeah.13:26
jelknerits such a HacDC type project13:26
jelknerSo we'll call it a virtual HacDC project13:26
jelkner we need pictures, a website, and such13:26
ubuntouristI don't want to jump the gun, but when you feel students are ready for it, I want to have them install the assembler on a Linux box13:26
jelknerdid you get it, ubuntourist?13:27
ubuntouristI have the listings of the two example programs in the Operator's manual that I want to share with you first, and then, maybe,13:28
jelkneri've got to get back to work13:28
ubuntouristthe students.13:28
jelknerso much to do13:28
jelknerdid you get the link?13:28
jelkneri'll leave it up today13:28
jelknerso please grab it13:28
jelknerthen i'll remove it13:28
ubuntouristDownloading now...13:28
jelknersweet13:28
jelknergotta go13:28
jelknertalk to you tomorrow13:29

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