IRC log of #novawebdev for Saturday, 2021-06-19

sitarabuta!agenda01:16
sitarabuta!remind01:16
*-* nothing to see here *-*01:16
sitarabutahmm this is not good.01:16
sitarabuta!remind01:18
*-* nothing to see here *-*01:18
sitarabutawhat is happening.01:19
sitarabuta_!remind01:27
Discuss https://possiblefutures.tech/ and synergies with MSP and CJS (jelkner)01:27
Moving to Europe on July 16th (sitarabuta)01:27
Becoming a Member? (abuchholz)01:27
sitarabuta!remind Welcome to OFTC and say hello to LittleWebster01:28
'Welcome to OFTC and say hello to LittleWebster' added to message queue01:28
sitarabuta!agenda01:34
LittleWebsterWarning: There are no items on the agenda!01:34
sitarabuta!forcerun01:35
sitarabuta!forceru01:40
sitarabuta!forcerun01:40
ubuntouristjelkner, I went a'beering at the Saloon.... Speak softly this morning. ;-)12:36
ubuntouristAlso, are we completely, officially off Freenode? If so, I'll drop #novawebdev from my Freenode "autojoin" list.12:37
jelknerI did.12:37
jelknerStefan says passwords were compromised12:37
jelkneri'm working on an email to folks now about tomorrow12:38
jelknerto tell Colombene and interns where to find us12:38
jelknerubuntourist: why am i not green?12:38
jelkneryou and mjsir911 have a green circle next to your names, but not me12:38
ubuntouristThis I do not understand: I set you, stefan, marco and myself up the same way... So, I dunno why you're not green.  (At least I think I set you up the same as the three of us...)12:39
ubuntouristI will look again.12:40
ubuntouristI know stefan has been adjusting things after I did stuff. Perhaps he's changed the colors... ;-)12:41
jelkneri need to switch computers, drats12:44
jelknersound is not working from my browser12:44
jelkneri'll be back12:44
jelknerubuntourist: it's not my browser12:55
jelknerit's community bridge12:55
ubuntouristjelkner, mind = sieve. jelkne'rs classroom?12:55
jelknermicky emailed about an update12:55
jelknerseems sound doesn't work12:55
ubuntouristYeah, I saw the notice this morning.12:55
ubuntouristUh-oh!12:56
jelknercan you meet me in my Meet.coop room?12:56
jelknerhttps://ca.meet.coop/b/jef-a1f-1y7-7zr12:56
ubuntouristjelkner, How do you know sound's not working?12:56
jelkneri never get the echo12:57
ubuntouristBecause I think it's working for me.12:57
jelknerlet me try12:57
jelknerbut the sound check always echos12:57
ubuntouristThere's no echo test any more.12:57
jelknernot so now12:57
jelknerahh12:57
jelknernever mind12:57
jelknersee you there12:57
ubuntouristMicky said that in her e-mail.12:57
jelknerACTION signs off14:04
mjsir911ubuntourist: its an away thing probably if its gone now14:09
ubuntourist?14:09
mjsir911the green dot next to to our names might be an "away" flag14:10
mjsir911*but* I don't think thats it, I see "@"s next to our names and not jelkner, looks to just be a normal permission thing :P14:11
ubuntouristmjsir911, When you or I or Stefan get on, the sidebar lists us as green -- which I believe indicates we're channel ops (or better). When jelkner gets on, he is not green,14:11
mjsir911yup! thats probably it14:12
ubuntouristmjsir911, and he demonstrated that he doesn't have chanop privs despite the fact that chanserv says he does.14:12
mjsir911Ah, probably needs to be auto-opped14:13
ubuntouristPersonally, I suspect he's got something strangely configured (or not configured) at his end: Something not quite done in his HexChat cliient.14:13
mjsir911Oh, yeah, maybe14:13
ubuntouristI've also set chanserv to autoop people who have the magjic...14:13
ubuntouristmjsir911,  /msg chanserv info #novawebdev14:14
ubuntouristmjsir911,  /msg chanserv access #novawebdev list14:14
mjsir911I see, AUTOOP14:14
ubuntouristmjsir911, and, it works for you, me and stefan just fine. As expected. So, I don't think it's an OFTC problem.14:15
mjsir911hmm yeah I'm out of ideas if auto-op is working14:16
ubuntouristWell, we can continue to dig. (Honestly, I think he's a bit over concerned: Based on what he said, he's only ever had to ban someone once in the 20+ years he's been using IRC. And that's the only thing he says he needs OP for.)14:18
mjsir911yes, but on the other hand, having a gree dot next to your name is fun :D14:19
ubuntouristThere is that. I can lord it over him. Nyah-nyah! ;-)14:19
ubuntouristSo. How's life post-vaccination treating you?14:20
mjsir911I wish I could say its different than post-vaccination, but I don't really go out all that much ubuntourist :<14:21
mjsir911Once things open up I'll probably start attending in-person meetups of various kinds14:21
mjsir911s/post/pre14:21
ubuntouristWell, for me, I am both a "social drinker" and a "social musician". And so, for 18 months I was neither drinking nor playing. I'm back to playing with other people, and occasionally, drinkiing -- considerably less often than before.14:23
ubuntouristGetting back to making music -- albeit not well -- has been great!14:24
ubuntouristGotta do a LOT more of that!14:24
mjsir911I'm glad to hear things are going back to normal for you! I am getting closer myself to purchasing a guitar, so hopefully that happens soon...14:24
ubuntouristI'm intrigued by weird instruments, even if I never buy any. There's a company in Baltimore that makes a "harpejji". I wish I knew someone who had one, just because I want to sit down with it for an hour or two and fool with it.14:26
ubuntouristhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harpejji14:27
ubuntouristhttps://www.marcodi.com/14:27
mjsir911Oh that does look strange! but pretty cool, too14:28
ubuntouristhttps://youtu.be/Wr87Z7rZiWE14:30
mjsir911I still have dreams for a "vim music instrument", but not knowing anything of the ecosystem doesn't really help being able to describe it better14:31
ubuntourist(That was one of the better examples of what you can do with it. There's also videos of Stevie Wonder "singing" its praises.)14:31
mjsir911yeah! It seems like they have some big name celebrities with this specific retailer14:32
ubuntouristI'm still liking your idea of the laser guitar, though I've seen other examples of "break the beam" sound instruments.14:32
ubuntouristWant a laugh?14:33
mjsir911always :)14:33
mjsir911the laser harp seems to be more realistic14:33
ubuntouristIn an effort to stop robo-callers, I decided to have a bit of fun: 14:33
ubuntouristThe three tones that precede "The number you have reached ... is not in service" are very specific, and meant to tell automatic systems to hang up. (A lot do not, but at least SOME still do.)14:34
ubuntouristIt always struck me that those tones were a rhythmically incorrect, slightly out of tune introduction to a bit of classical music.14:35
ubuntouristSo, I've made a phone message that plays the tune and then "sings" it with words I've composed: "At the tone... don't hang up... leave your num-ber... Don't forget... also leave... a con-cise... reason why... you have called."14:36
ubuntouristSo, call 202-234-0213 now and listen. 34 seconds. 14:37
mjsir911Is it just for artsy purposes? Those tones you sing wouldn't be picked up from automated services, right?14:37
ubuntouristI generated the tones. So more than artsy. It does the "instrumental" part first. It should trigger automated systems that pay attention.14:38
ubuntouristThe sung part is two synthetic voices singing in harmony.14:39
mjsir911wow! That's pretty cool, like modern day phreaking :) with a bit of an artsy spin14:39
mjsir911So, you've gave in & bought a phone ubuntourist?14:42
ubuntouristcourtesy of Python, (import numpy, sounddevice, soundfile and math), festival, and a bit of MuseScore3 to help me test.14:42
ubuntouristNope. That's still my landline.14:42
mjsir911Ah, I see14:43
ubuntouristmjsir911, But it's getting MUCH harder to resist: I'm planning to write to the city council in protest: Several businesses have completely given up the idea of service that does not require a phone.14:44
mjsir911I agree ubuntourist, in just trying to not download *apps* on my phone I've had to give up on using doordash. They're customer request could not computer "I don't have a phone to download the app on"14:45
ubuntouristSome restaurants are no longer providing menus: You have to call up their menu on your phone, and pay via Venmo or whatever hellish system they provide.14:45
mjsir911I'll be soon to join you as well, I'm sure. I'm really hoping my next phone is a dumb phone once I purchase a music player: https://www.fiio.com/m614:46
ubuntouristI love tech, but the faceless, corporate monster that it has become is pure evil. I'm actually considering hiring a lawyer for a problem I have:14:47
ubuntouristIn April 2020, I finally switched to Verizon FiOS, because I really needed better bandwidth at home, and that's the only way to get it for this building. Fine. 14:49
ubuntouristVerizon helpfully noticed that I was paying AT&T for my long-distance service, and sent them a notice saying "That's okay, you can go away now, we've got that covered". Again, this was the right thing to do.14:50
ubuntouristBut the problem: AT&T closed the account, but continue to charge me every month. Everyone I've spoken with at AT&T says that I must be mistaken. And my credit union says it cannot prevent AT&T from making the withdrawals.14:51
ubuntouristI even had one AT&T rep claim that the company has never had any service in Washington, DC.14:52
mjsir911Oof, yeah, this does sound a situation where you need a lawyer to write an angry letter.14:52
mjsir911Sounds more to me like a bureaucracy problem than a tech problem, though14:52
ubuntouristVerizon helpfully provided me with documentation (order number, date, etc) verifying that they told AT&T to close the account. AT&T claims that I do not have an account with them any longer, and therefore they cannot cancel withdrawals for an account that does not exist.14:54
ubuntouristmjsir911, Yeah, but the bureaucracy bows to the machine.14:54
mjsir911Fair enough, its easier to launder responsibility into the black box nobody tries to understand14:55
mjsir911ML/AI is just the next step at that, where *nobody* understands what its doing14:55
ubuntouristIt's like watching a cashier who cannot do basic math punch numbers into a cash register, and when you try to point out an error in the receipt, they are completely baffled, and convinced you are trying to cheat the system.14:55
ubuntouristEXACTLY!14:56
ubuntouristAnd now I'm reading about cities that want to prevent the average citizen from using facial recognition tech (okay) but make an exception for law enforcement... Um... Surveillance state? 1984? 14:57
ubuntouristAnyway, I'm just becoming an old luddite ranting against the system. Time to go off and do somthing else. ;-)14:59
mjsir911Yep, it was nice talking ubuntourist!14:59
ubuntouristYes, good catching up. Hope to hear you on guitar someday. ;-)14:59
jelknersitarabuta: ping18:06
sitarabutajelkner, are you identified?18:06
sitarabutajelkner, pong18:06
sitarabutaYou should have op18:06
jelkner* End of /MOTD command.18:07
jelkner* jelkner sets mode +i on jelkner18:07
jelknerI believe I am identified18:07
jelknerkevin couldn't figure this out18:07
jelknerhe looked at it this morning18:07
sitarabutaWell18:07
jelkneralso, mjsir911 should be given the highest access18:07
sitarabutaHe has it18:07
jelknercool18:08
sitarabutamjsir911, ubuntourist, you and I have op18:08
sitarabuta*should*18:08
jelknerwhen ubuntourist looked this morning, he didn't18:08
sitarabutadid you /ns identify password18:08
jelknerhexchat does that on longin18:08
jelknerlogin18:08
sitarabutaRight...18:09
sitarabutaIt does work for me18:09
sitarabutaIt seems to also work for mjsir911 - he has the green circle18:09
jelkneryup18:09
mjsir911ACTION is debugging as well for a second18:09
jelknerdon't know what's wrong with me18:09
mjsir911ok, so manual opping works18:09
sitarabutaYep18:10
jelknerso why don't i get it on login18:10
jelkner?18:10
jelknerubuntourist and i tried this morning18:10
sitarabutaLet me remove you from the list18:10
mjsir911jelkner: can you try /part ing and re-joining the channel18:10
sitarabutaand re-add you18:10
*** jelkner has left #novawebdev (Leaving)18:11
sitarabutaI re-added you. You still didn't get it. Hmm18:11
mjsir911hmm, seems keeping the connection open while rejoining the channel doesn't do anything18:11
sitarabutaDid you verify your account on OFTC.net jelkner?18:11
jelknernot sure18:11
sitarabutaI don't know if it has anything to do with it, but let me tell you the steps18:11
mjsir911sitarabuta: NickServ info jelkner gives: VERIFIED: YES18:12
jelkneroh, sorry18:12
sitarabutaAh, smart. Thanks mjsir911 18:12
jelkneri have had a verified account here since the OLPC days18:13
jelkner10 years ago18:13
jelkneror more18:13
sitarabutaHoly cow!18:13
sitarabutaVeteran ;-)18:13
jelkner200718:13
jelkneri just looked ;-)18:13
jelknerolpc used this for communication18:13
jelknerbut i had forgotten my password18:14
sitarabutaCould you reset it?18:14
jelknerso i had to send an email requesting a reset18:14
jelknerthey were very responsive18:14
jelknersitarabuta: could i reset what?18:14
sitarabutathe password18:14
jelknerwhy?18:14
sitarabutaBut you already replied to that ;-)18:15
sitarabutaBecause you forgot it! :-)18:15
jelkneryeah, it's all good now18:15
jelknerso, we still don't know why i don't get channel op18:15
jelkneri'll leave that in your capable hands18:16
sitarabutaYou are now CHANOP instead of MASTER18:16
sitarabutaI wonder if that is gonna fix it. Probably not.18:16
*** mjsir911 has left #novawebdev (WeeChat 3.1)18:16
*** mjsir911 has left #novawebdev (WeeChat 3.1)18:16
sitarabutaWait.18:16
jelknerno, sitarabuta, i'm not18:16
mjsir911btw sitarabuta, when auto-op is off I'm still given voice18:16
sitarabutaThere is also AUTOVOICE I think, mjsir911 18:17
sitarabutajelkner, 18:17
mjsir911yes but that's *also* not applied to jelkner 18:17
sitarabutait applies after a log in and out usually18:17
sitarabutamjsir911, right.. It doesn't give him anything.18:17
mjsir911sitarabuta: applies after parting & re-joining18:17
sitarabutaUsually does that when the user is not identified18:17
sitarabutamjsir911, oh I see18:17
mjsir911no need for a full reconnection & I would like to debug without one, complicates things where the problem might be "chanserv checks for verification before hexchat auto-logs in"18:18
jelknergentleman, i've got to get things ready for the PRIME interns18:18
sitarabutaalright jelkner.18:18
jelknerso i'm signing off until tomorrow.18:18
mjsir911o/18:18
jelknerACTION leaves18:18
sitarabutaThis is weird mjsir911. I made a test account 2 days ago and played with all this stuff and there was nothing broken. Could it be on jelkner's end?18:19
sitarabutaIt also seems to work for us, so...18:19
mjsir911sitarabuta, can you type /mode somewhere and give me the result?18:22
sitarabutaFor this channel, we have:18:22
mjsir911specifically I want your user mode, mine is +Ri18:22
sitarabutaOh ok18:23
sitarabutaCrap what did AI do18:23
sitarabutaNOOO18:23
sitarabutaAhhh stupid commands always get them wrong.18:23
mjsir911um, the previous mode was +nt18:23
sitarabutaThanks.18:23
sitarabutaHm. I thought it would be /mode sitarabuta to get my mode, but I guess that does not work.18:24
sitarabutaIn anyway, mode mode is +iR18:24
sitarabutasame as yours.18:25
mjsir911I'm going to stick with my theory of "hexchat is logging in after chanserv is identifying", that sounds plausible & it took a while for jelkner to rejoin with what should've just been a /part /join18:25
mjsir911If you have the time to reproduce/test that, it'd be appreciated. basically just identifying with nickserve 10 seconds after you join the channel as an admin18:25
sitarabutaHexChat is doing something else for me though. When I start it up, it waits for me to be identified and then join any channels.18:26
sitarabutaSure, I can do that.18:26
mjsir911hmm, I couldn't say then. it sounds like your hexchat is acting sanely18:26
sitarabutaYep ;-) jelker could have some weird settings. I will meet with him tomorrow and he'll screenshare. Maybe other weird stuff is happening.18:27
sitarabutaAlso, ChanServ here gives permissions based on the username not the nickname. It could be that jelkner has a different username.18:27
sitarabutaTo quote OFTC's docs: "Levels are assigned based on accounts not on nicks, any linked nick assigned to an access list will allow any other similarly linked nick the same access."18:27
mjsir911perhaps sitarabuta 18:40
sitarabuta!remind23:39
Discuss https://possiblefutures.tech/ and synergies with MSP and CJS (jelkner)23:39
Moving to Europe on July 16th (sitarabuta)23:39
Becoming a Member? (abuchholz)23:39
Welcome to OFTC and say hello to LittleWebster (sitarabuta)23:39
*** sitarabuta has left #novawebdev (Leaving)23:39
sitarabutaDamn I locked myself out by setting the channel to invite only earlier, by accident.23:41
sitarabuta!forcerun23:43
sitarabuta!forcerun23:47
@sitarabuta : @mjsir911 : LittleBrother23:47
Tick Tock!23:47
It's {utc_time} UTC o'clock and NOVA Web Development's meeting is starting.23:47
This is the agenda for today:23:47
sitarabuta!forcerun23:49
sitarabuta!forcerun23:51
sitarabuta!forcerun23:52
sitarabuta!forcerun23:52

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