IRC log of #novawebdev for Saturday, 2023-02-04

scooperGood morning Jeff, I m running Central Monrovia to collect something and will be back shortly to join out activities for Saturday...11:35
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jelknerGood day scooper and tboimah!12:47
scooperGood monring JEff12:47
jelknerI just finished posting an assignment for my UoPeople class12:47
jelknerso I'm feeling a bit relieved ;-)12:47
scooperwow sound great12:47
jelknernot that great, scooper 12:47
jelkneryou have to do it three times each week12:48
jelknerso one down, two to go ;-)12:48
jelknerbut it is good12:48
scooperyes12:48
jelkneri didn't add any agenda items12:48
scooperWill submit my tomorrow by GOd grace12:48
jelkner!agenda12:48
LittleWebsterWarning: There are no items on the agenda!12:48
jelkneryes, scooper, you have to keep up12:49
scooperand participate in the discussion forum as well12:49
tboimahhow are you jeff12:49
jelknertrying to keep my head above water, tboimah 12:49
jelknerbut i like to swim, so it's fun12:49
scooperJeff I have few recommendation here to make12:49
jelkneryes, scooper 12:49
jelknerplease do12:49
scoopersince class commence yet12:49
scooperIt has to do with tmickelson12:50
jelknerhe should be joining us shortly12:50
jelknerso go ahead12:50
scooperSince he is a bit busy all he need to do is give us the Agenda for what we need to learn12:50
jelkneryes, that is what we are aiming at12:50
jelknerso yes, *definitely*12:51
jelknerin fact, that's what i'm aiming for with this "class", too12:51
jelkneri'm glad to bring in students like tmickelson, so you all can see what we need to achieve12:51
scooperBecause the time frame is short, when He is not around we can mangle our way through. If we encounter any challanges we can than share with him went we all me again 12:51
jelkneri can tell him, "Toby, I need you to learn how webmail works on May First, so we can pay you to migrate our NOVALACIRO email system over there."12:52
jelknerand he goes to work12:52
jelknerreading online documentation, experimenting, and then delivering12:52
jelknerhe did that12:52
jelknerwhen we can get to that level, we can take on paying customers12:53
jelknerscooper, as long as you all wait to be told what to do, step-by-step, you will not be able to charge for your services12:53
jelknerno one will pay you to do that12:53
jelknerso what we need learn most of all is how to learn12:53
scooperI know jeff12:54
jelknerso that you can solve problems, with only minimal guidance and support12:54
jelkneri want Saturdays to be like that12:54
scooperI did the ssh with the link he share but by than he had already left 16 minutes ago12:54
jelknerwhen i show up here to meet on Saturday, i want *you* to tell me what we are going to talk about12:54
jelknerso, let's take these two goals as an example, and use them, scooper, to talk about how you could do things better12:55
jelknerWe want to learn:12:55
dcammueGood morning Jeff12:55
jelkner1. to setup mumble so we can talk12:55
jelkner2. to use tmux (or whatever tmickelson is using) to share terminals12:56
janetGood morning Jeff12:56
tboimahmumble have already been set Jeff12:56
scoopersetting up mumble has been completed already but we all can't us it within the same environment Jeff12:56
jelknertboimah we want you to be able to guide the rest of us12:56
jelknerso you and tmickelson learn how to manage it first12:56
scooperthe reception is bad when every body get connect in the lab12:57
jelknerthen you past a url that we connect to12:57
jelknerand we talk12:57
jelknerwhen we can do that, it will speed up our communication12:57
jelkneri like to start as simple as possible12:57
jelknerthis irc, for example, is super easy, and super reliable12:57
jelknerso we start here12:57
scoopertmate is best way forward I see for now Jeff12:57
jelknerwhat is tmate?12:58
tboimahit's use for screen sharing12:58
scooperTmate is a screening sharing application12:58
jelkneris that what you and tmickelson are using?12:58
scooperthat was introduce by tmickelson12:58
jelknerok, great12:58
jelkneryes12:58
tboimah+112:59
scooperWe did that yesterday12:59
jelknerthat means we are making progress, scooper 12:59
jelknerthat sounds great12:59
tboimahsure12:59
jelknerso we are on the right path, we just need to keep marching forward12:59
scooperwith that we can share our terminal screen with each one via ssh13:00
jelkneryes13:00
jelknerthat will be great13:00
jelkneras i said to toby, i want to be able to say, janet, show us how to type out the HTML minimal page13:00
jelknerand for all of us to be able to watch her type it13:00
jelknerthat's what i'm looking for13:01
jelknerok, its 8 am13:01
jelknerGood day, everyone!13:01
scooperSince tboimah and I are in the lead of learning this we will share with the other13:01
dcammueGoog day Jeff13:01
scooperGood day Jeff13:01
jelknerscooper: that would be awesome!13:02
janetGood day Jeff13:02
svayeGood day Jeff13:02
jelknerscooper, one more thing13:02
jelkneryou should continue and expand the practice of putting people into small teams13:03
tboimahJeff take a look at this it is an other application that use for communication and screen sharing https://app.pumble.com/workspace/63dbc51a683ddd3d6c4f443d/63dbc51a683ddd3d6c4f444213:03
jelknerand giving them tasks13:03
jelknerit's taking a looong time to load, tboimah 13:04
tboimahI already add novawebdevelopment intern in it but i have not yet upgrade it yet13:04
tboimahI want you to take a look at it13:05
jelknerI am looking at it, tboimah 13:05
jelknerThe first question i ask is: is it free and open source software?13:05
jelknerif it isn't, i'm not interested13:06
tboimah it is free jeff check it13:06
jelknertboimah: i don't think it is13:08
jelknerlet me explain13:08
scooperBefore you leave us today Jeff... please send me the site you once told me about13:08
scooper*link13:08
jelkneri have only had a few minutes to look13:09
jelknerbut pumble appears to be a chat app13:09
jelknerit advertises itself as a replacement for discord and slack13:09
jelknerwe already have something for that, zulip13:09
jelknerzulip is free and open source software13:10
jelkneryou can download the pumble client without paying13:10
jelknerbut you need to use the pumble server13:10
jelknerthat means the server is software as a service13:10
jelknerhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_as_a_service13:11
jelknerthe question you need to ask, tboimah, is, could we run our own pumble server?13:11
jelkneri am not certain, but i believe the answer is no13:11
jelknercan we run our own zulip server?13:12
jelknerYes13:12
jelknerso we would want to use zulip13:12
tboimahokay i understand now Jeff13:12
jelknerbesides, zulip is built on Django, and scooper is learning Django13:12
jelknerthe reason we are using irc now, instead of zulip, is bandwidth13:13
jelknerthat is our other concern13:13
jelknermany of these modern apps use *a lot* of JavaScript13:13
jelkneri mean *a lot*13:13
jelknerwe were finding that they were not working when i was there last Summer13:13
jelknersince bandwidth was so limited there13:13
jelknerso we need to make sure we look for tools that are light13:14
jelkneror else they will fail to load13:14
jelkneras bandwidth improves, our choices will become greater13:14
jelknerbut for now, it is in some ways a good thing to have limited bandwidth13:14
jelknersince it means we will learn to economize13:14
jelknerand that will help us in the future even when we have more resources13:15
jelknerscooper: which link?13:15
jelkneri don't understand13:15
scooperthe website you told me about that want upgrade13:15
scooperor developing13:15
jelknerhmmm, i'm still not sure what you mean13:16
jelkneri remember asking you to learn to update the lab machines13:16
scooperNo not the lab13:16
jelkneris that what you are talking about?13:16
scooperYou once told me that setting group of people need you to develop their website Jeff13:17
jelknerso i don't remember exactly13:17
jelknerbut i was just talking about teams13:17
scooperOK is not a problem when the time reach you will remember one faith day13:18
jelknersounds good13:18
dcammueJeff, that is not a free and open source software. I just try upgrading it and they requested for credit card number for payment. 13:18
jelknerwait, are you talking about the website i was sharing for a new NOVA Web customer?13:18
scooperI think so13:19
svayehttps://www.allianceforhousingsolutions.org/13:19
jelknerthanks, svaye!13:19
jelkneryes13:19
jelknernicely done, svaye 13:19
jelkneryes, scooper, i shared that13:19
jelknerthe three interns, Dafni, Antonio, and Luke, are working on that site13:20
jelknerit is a professional job13:20
jelkneri was sharing that with you so you could get an idea of the level of skill we need to achieve before we can begin doing professional work13:21
jelknerjust so you could watch, at this stage13:21
jelknerdoes that make sense?13:21
scooperGot you13:21
jelkneras the project moves forward, i'll describe it to you13:21
jelknerand encourage you to ask a lot of questions13:22
jelknerthey are looking into wordpress13:22
jelknerhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WordPress13:22
jelknerit is *a lot* for them to learn13:22
jelknerbut many small customers will want to use WordPress13:23
jelknerso antonio, luke, and dafni are working on learning it13:23
jelknerok, i don't know what happened to toby13:23
jelkneri will ask him on monday13:23
jelknerso, want to you want to discuss now?13:24
jelkneri hope you are using Head First HTML & CSS13:25
scooperme13:25
jelknerand organizing yourselves into study groups13:25
jelknerto go through that book13:25
jelknerthen you could come to our meeting on Saturday and show the rest of us what you've been doing13:25
jelknerthat would be a wonderful thing13:26
jelknerscooper: that's what i was saying about teams13:26
jelknerthere is so much to learn13:26
scooperI need you link to me with someone who understand Django to help me understand the full process of Deployment13:26
scooperThough I reading the documentation and practicing as well but I well need someone with experience to assist me in the process13:27
scooperLike the way you introduce tmickelson to assist us here 13:27
jelkneryes13:27
jelkneri understand13:27
jelkneri'm thinking13:27
jelknerhere are the people i know who know Django:13:28
jelknerAdrian, Stephan, and Louie13:28
scooperExcluding Adrain13:28
jelknerwhy?13:28
jelkneri bet we could talk to Adrian13:29
scooperBecause you once told me not to put all the burden on his one13:29
scooperBecause he collapse13:29
jelknerwell, let's revisit that13:29
jelknerthis is part of your learning process, too, scooper13:29
scooperBefore he collapse13:29
jelkneryou need to understand that volunteers like to help, but you need to be very respectful of their time13:30
jelkneri mean *very* respectful13:30
scooperI got you13:30
jelknerwhat happened with Adrian is that he started to feel taken advantage of13:30
jelknerwe need to be respectful and that means honoring his time, and limiting what we ask of him13:31
jelkneri bet i could ask him to come work with you each thrusday from 3 to 4 pm my time13:31
jelknerwhich means 8 to 9 pm your time13:31
scooperI will really appreciate that from you Jeff13:31
jelkneror something like that13:32
jelknerbut here is what i ask of you, scooper 13:32
jelkner1. we limit the time to 1 hour per week13:32
scooperI m available anytime. Learner have no choose Jeff13:32
jelkner2. you don't bother him outside of that13:32
jelkner3. you make every effort to show up at the agreed time13:32
jelkner4. you do your homework, so you come to the meeting with things to ask13:33
jelknerdoes that make sense?13:33
scooper100% Agreed Jeff13:33
jelknerin other words, adrian will be a tutor / mentor13:33
jelknerhe will point you in the right direction, by saying, scooper i want you look at this tutorial this week13:33
jelknerand giving you a url13:33
jelknerthen when you meet13:34
jelknerhe could help you debug and understand problems you encounter13:34
jelknerbut the vast majority of the work fall on you, not him13:34
jelknerthat's what i mean by respecting his time13:34
jelkneri feel pretty confident he would go for that13:34
jelkneri'll reach out to him and ask13:35
scooperJeff I 'm and willing to abide by these rules13:35
jelknerlet's set up 3 pm thursday as our planning meeting for that13:35
jelkneris that ok?13:35
scooperI want to master this before proceeding to the next level13:35
jelknerwhen we meet, you two can work out whatever weekly time works best for you13:35
scooperHis time will be my time Jeff I have to choice here13:36
jelknersound good, my friend?13:36
scooper*no13:36
jelknerplease explain13:36
jelknerwhat is not good13:36
scooperAre you talking to me Jeff13:37
jelkneryes, scooper, you wrote *no13:37
jelknerwhen i asked if it sounded good13:37
scooperI was trying to say: I want to master this before proceeding to the next level13:38
jelkneryou mean Django?13:38
jelknerremember, you really need to learn Python before you can learn Django13:38
scooperthan I mistakenly type no 13:38
jelknersince Django is just a big Python library13:38
jelknerso that is another issues13:38
scooperI know Jeff13:38
jelknerissue13:39
jelkneri can work with you on Python13:39
jelknerwe don't need to bother Adrian for that13:39
jelknerteaching Python is what i do at school13:39
jelknerand i know the best resources to use13:39
jelknerso we should really start there13:39
scooperSchedule me at your convenient time to test my python level of udnerstanding Jeff13:39
jelknerwith Dr. Chuck's python course13:39
scooperBefore involving Adrain since Django is a Python Library13:40
jelkneryes13:40
jelknerscooper, let's start a Python study group for you and anyone else you want to include13:40
jelknerfind at least one other person13:41
jelknerjanet, what about you?13:41
janetyes13:41
scooperLet start with thomas13:41
jelknerscooper: thomas already has a project13:41
jelknerthat is what i was tryig to get at about project management13:41
jelkneryou don't want all the learning to be on one person13:42
jelknerhow are we growing our community then?13:42
jelknerthomas will work with toby13:42
scooperOk me engage with Janet13:42
jelknerand i don't know what happened to her today, but i have one other person i would like to suggest too13:42
scoopersince you are highly interested in gender base equity13:42
jelknerfreena13:42
jelkner+113:43
jelknerYes! ;-)13:43
scooperlet the both of them work with me13:43
jelkneri am suggesting freena because she could not register for UoPeople until March13:43
scooperI want Janet to be actively engage in this stuff13:43
jelknerand when she does, a Python course will be her first CS course at the university13:43
jelknerso if she studies with us, she will be ready to get an A in that course13:44
jelknerlet me share the book i want to use13:44
jelknerhttps://www.py4e.com/book13:44
jelknerjanet, scooper, download the book now13:45
jelknerclick the free PDF link13:45
mulbahGood morning jeff13:45
jelknergood day, mulbah 13:45
mulbahsorry I arrive online late13:46
mulbahI was in tariff13:46
mulbahbecause today is a holy day in liberia and the street was pack 13:47
jelknerno problem mulbah 13:47
scooperthe book has 245 pages is that it13:47
jelkner+113:47
mulbahokay jeff thanks for understanding13:47
jelknerChapter 1 is called "Why should you learn to13:47
jelknerwrite programs?"13:47
jelkneryou 3 should set up times during the week to meet13:48
jelknerstart with the first chapter13:48
jelknerand read and discuss it together13:48
jelknerso when we meet next Saturday13:48
jelkneri can ask you questions13:48
jelknerand you can have questions of your own13:49
scooperJeff13:49
jelkneryes, scooper 13:49
scooperI coming the version I dowloading is in different language13:49
jelknerLOL13:49
scooperlet me look for the english version13:49
jelkneryes, please do13:49
jelknerone day, scooper, we will write our own version in colloqua ;-)13:50
jelknerthat's how you will really teach me, i'll get to ready Dr. Chuck's python book using it13:50
jelknerdid i spell colloqua right?13:51
scooperis python for every body??13:52
jelkneryes!13:52
jelknerthe first chapter is called "Why should you learn to write programs?"13:52
mulbahssh ro-CaCAcc58nMTfhJPNz4UPcZsxY@lon1.tmate.io13:52
scooperby Allen Downey13:52
jelknerno13:52
jelknerit is based on a book by Allen Downey13:53
jelknerthat he wrote using Java13:53
jelknerback in 1999, i translated it into Python13:53
jelknerthen much later, Dr. Chuck made his own version13:53
scooperthe english version is asking to purchase13:54
jelknerno, you have the wrong link13:54
jelkneryou can purchase the printed book13:54
jelknerbut you can download the pdf13:54
jelknerhold on, i'll paste the link13:54
jelknerhttp://do1.dr-chuck.com/pythonlearn/EN_us/pythonlearn.pdf13:54
scooperby Dr. Charles R. Severance13:55
jelkneryup, that's him13:56
jelknerDr. Chuck13:56
scooperI got it13:56
jelknerjanet, do you have class at 2:30 pm during the week?13:56
jelknerscooper, remember that i wanted to start with python back in august13:57
jelknerbut we weren't ready13:57
janetyes, my class end 2:4013:57
jelknerlet's try again13:57
jelkneryou are at tubman, yes?13:57
jelkneror no13:57
jelkneranyway, here is what you can do to help me, scooper 13:58
jelkneryou lead the study group during the week13:58
jelkneri can be online most days for 30 minutes from 2:30 to 3 pm13:58
janetno, am at Gibson13:58
jelknerok, too far away for you to meet during the week13:58
jelknerso janet, we will depend on scooper and freena for that13:59
jelkneron saturday, you have me for 2 hours13:59
jelknerbut this will only work if you come prepared13:59
jelkneryou have to read, and talk, and think on your own13:59
janetI can still come when needed14:00
jelknerso that on Saturday, we summarize and review14:00
jelkneri'll be here every saturday14:00
jelknerbut during the week, i only have 30 minutes from 2:30 to 3 pm your time14:00
jelknerok, let's check in with the others14:01
jelknersvaye and dcammue, what do you want to study?14:01
jelknermulbah, what about you?14:01
jelkneri think we need a python group, and html / css (web) group, and a sys admin group14:02
jelknerthere are 8 of you there14:02
jelknerso either 2 or 3 people in each group14:02
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mulbah python and sys admin14:03
jelknermulbah, start with sys admin14:03
jelknerwe need you to focus14:03
svayeI will like to get better at HTML/C14:03
jelknerso we can give you tasks14:03
svayeCSS14:03
dcammuehtml and css14:03
jelknersvaye can you lead the web group?14:03
jelknerdcammue awesome14:03
jelknerso for the web group14:04
mulbahokay I will14:04
jelknerwe will be using Head First HTML and CSS to start14:04
dcammueok14:04
jelknersvaye and dcammue, you both have that book, right?14:04
svayeAlright14:04
dcammue+114:04
jelknerso here is what i want you to do14:04
svayeYes I have the book14:04
jelknernext Saturday, i want you two to prepare a short presentation for us14:05
mulbahso jeff what about us that doing sys admin14:05
jelknermulbah i'll get to you next14:05
mulbahokay no problem jeff14:05
jelkneri want you two to summarize chapter 1 in the book14:05
jelknerwhat did you learn from it?14:06
tboimah_it is me and mulbah that will be meeting with toby14:06
jelknershow us any web pages you make using it14:06
jelknertboimah_, yes14:06
jelknerbut i'm also going to give you a book14:06
tboimah_okay that sound great14:06
jelknerbut tboimah_ and mulbah will work with toby14:06
mulbahsure jeff14:07
jelknersvaye and dcammue, i will find a student here in virginia to work with you too14:07
svayeOur web page shouldn't be from the book 14:07
jelkneri have a few in mind14:07
jelknernot *just* from the book, svaye 14:07
jelkneryou start with the examples in the book14:07
dcammueyou mean now Jeff14:07
jelknerbut then you two talk, and say, "what did we learn?  how can we use that to make our own page?"14:08
svayeWe can use the code and create our own page14:08
jelkner+114:08
jelkneryes, svaye, *exactly*14:08
dcammueok14:08
jelknergreat14:08
jelknerwe are really making progress, everyone14:08
jelknerthis is great14:08
jelknerso, svaye, dcammue, scooper, and janet you can all start working now14:09
jelknerand i need a 5 minute break and then i'm going to plan with tboimah_ and mulbah 14:09
jelknersound good?14:09
svayeAlright Jeff14:09
tboimah_okay we are waiting14:10
jelknerbe back in 5...14:10
dcammuechapter 1 stalk about how web server and web browser can function14:10
dcammuesorry talk14:10
dcammueand for the web server it tells us that the web server gets a hole time job on the internet waiting for requests from the browser tirelessly 14:13
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jelknerok tboimah_ and mulbah i'm back14:18
jelknerare you ready?14:18
tboimah_+114:19
jelkneri have a book for you, but it isn't OER14:19
jelknerthat means i can't send you a public link14:19
jelknerbut i did purchase a copy, so i'm going to give that to you know14:19
jelknerLOL14:22
jelkneri mean now14:23
jelknertboimah_: let me know when you have it14:23
tboimah_I have it Jeff14:23
jelknergreat14:24
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tboimah_it have 482 pages14:24
jelkner+114:24
jelkneryou don't need to learn it all, tboimah_ ;-)14:24
jelknerbut it will be a good resource14:24
tboimah_okay thanks i will share it with mulbah14:25
jelknergreat14:25
jelknerok, i will be able to mentor the python and web groups14:25
jelknerbut i will ask toby and aaron to work with you two14:25
jelknersince aaron knows a lot more about system administration than i do14:26
jelknertboimah_: are you at tubman?14:26
tboimah_+114:26
jelknersuper14:26
jelknerso you can make the 2:30 to 3 pm meetings14:27
jelkneryes?14:27
jelknerduring the week, i mean14:27
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tboimah_how about 2:40 but it their is no changes no problem14:27
jelknergreat14:28
tboimah_id14:28
tboimah_if14:28
jelknerthat works14:28
tboimah_so 2:40 work14:28
jelknerso i will ask toby and thehedgeh0g to mentor this group14:28
jelknerand i have an idea for a good project14:28
jelknerwe should set up our own git server14:28
jelknerusing gitea14:28
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jelkneri will let them which book i gave you14:29
jelknerand get them a copy as well14:29
jelknerok, we seem to be having connection issues14:29
jelknerlet's stop now and continue next week14:29
jelknerany questions before i go?14:30
scooperNO question from my end14:30
jelknerthanks, scooper 14:30
jelknerthis is pretty awesome14:30
scooperJust leave a task you want from us14:30
jelknerwe are really making progress now14:30
scooperI mean my work14:30
jelkneryou have two tasks, scooper 14:31
jelkneryou are a member of the python group14:31
scoopersure14:31
jelknerbut you are also the project manager for all groups14:31
jelknerthat means checking in and making sure they are doing things14:31
jelknermake sense?14:31
scooperYes Sir14:31
jelknersweet!14:31
jelknerok, my dear friend, i'm going to get to my UoPeople studies14:32
jelknersee you on monday at 2:30 pm14:32
scooperBy God grace Jeff14:32
jelknerACTION signs off...14:32
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