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| jkollie | help! | 13:48 |
|---|---|---|
| jkollie | !help | 13:48 |
| Websterss | Little Webster - Meeting Bot Commands: | 13:48 |
| Websterss | !stop - Deactivate active meeting | 13:48 |
| Websterss | !add [id] <item> - Add agenda item (any meeting) | 13:48 |
| Websterss | !agenda [id] - Show agenda with item IDs and status | 13:48 |
| Websterss | !remove <id> - Remove agenda item by ID (e.g., I1) | 13:48 |
| Websterss | !sethost <nick> - Change meeting host | 13:48 |
| Websterss | !finish - End and delete active meeting | 13:49 |
| Websterss | !delete - Delete any meeting by ID/name | 13:49 |
| Websterss | Type !help <command> for details (e.g., !help add) | 13:49 |
| jkollie | !create | 13:49 |
| Websterss | Invalid arguments. | 13:49 |
| jkollie | !create SJC meeting | 13:49 |
| Websterss | Meeting created! ID: 6QS7 | Name: SJC meeting | 13:49 |
| jelkner | hello jkollie and dcammue! | 13:51 |
| jelkner | !list | 13:51 |
| Websterss | **Scheduled Meetings:** | 13:51 |
| dcammue | hello jelkner | 13:51 |
| jelkner | !agenda 6Q57 | 13:51 |
| Websterss | No meeting found with ID/name '6Q57' in this channel. | 13:51 |
| jelkner | !agenda 6QS7 | 13:51 |
| Websterss | **Agenda for '6QS7 - SJC meeting'** [⏸ INACTIVE - Use !add 6QS7 <item> to add items] | 13:51 |
| jkollie | hello jelkner | 13:52 |
| jkollie | am adding the agenda now | 13:52 |
| jelkner | great jkollie! | 13:52 |
| jelkner | thanks | 13:52 |
| jkollie | !add 6QS7 1. Discussion on moving SJC to a Sociocratic membership organization. | 13:54 |
| Websterss | Added to agenda: [I1] '1. Discussion on moving SJC to a Sociocratic membership organization.' (by jkollie) | 13:54 |
| jkollie | !add 6QS7 1. Proposal for $25K "Go Fund Me" campaign for the social justice reporter. | 13:56 |
| Websterss | Added to agenda: [I2] '1. Proposal for $25K "Go Fund Me" campaign for the social justice reporter.' (by jkollie) | 13:56 |
| jkollie | !add 6QS7 Elaboration on our digital equity program, concerning the SJC website. | 13:57 |
| Websterss | Added to agenda: [I3] 'Elaboration on our digital equity program, concerning the SJC website.' (by jkollie) | 13:57 |
| jelkner | jkollie, can you join on jitsi too? | 13:58 |
| jkollie | sure jelkner | 13:58 |
| jkollie | I can | 13:58 |
| jelkner | I'm all there by myself :-( | 13:59 |
| jelkner | hello devesh! | 13:59 |
| devesh | hello jelkner, how are you? | 13:59 |
| jelkner | how is college treating you? | 13:59 |
| devesh | It's going well so far. Philly isn't too much of an adjustment from DC | 14:00 |
| jelkner | I *love* Philly! | 14:00 |
| jelkner | It's my favorite city. | 14:00 |
| jelkner | Let me know if you want some recommendations for things to do. | 14:00 |
| jelkner | jkollie, i'm going to call dr. hubbard | 14:01 |
| devesh | I haven't had too many chances to head into center city yet. I've mostly been staying on the west side | 14:01 |
| jelkner | jkollie, can you call the Supe? | 14:01 |
| jkollie | okay | 14:01 |
| jelkner | devesh, are you going to join jitsi as well? | 14:04 |
| devesh | i will try right now. having a some wifi issues. | 14:04 |
| Stephen_Hubbard | Present! | 14:06 |
| smohamud | Present | 14:06 |
| smohamud | jitsi meeting slow to reload. | 14:06 |
| jelkner | jelkner, present! | 14:07 |
| chris_ | cjones here too | 14:07 |
| devesh | devesh: here | 14:07 |
| jkollie | ACTION here | 14:07 |
| jelkner | devesh, smohamud is having issues too | 14:08 |
| jelkner | i think irc is the best | 14:08 |
| jelkner | *very* low bandwidth | 14:08 |
| jelkner | *very* reliable | 14:08 |
| jelkner | it we learn to use it | 14:08 |
| jelkner | it means we can spend time organizing instead of fiddling with tech | 14:08 |
| jelkner | i can't multitask | 14:09 |
| jelkner | so if i'm talking in jitsi | 14:09 |
| jelkner | i find it hard to type here | 14:09 |
| jelkner | but if i'm *just* typing here, i love it | 14:09 |
| jelkner | jkollie, we are 10 minutes into our meeting | 14:09 |
| chris_ | (side chatter on jitsi - we're going to give up there and just chat here) | 14:10 |
| Stephen_Hubbard | I'm there... | 14:10 |
| smohamud | Jitsi is a great backup but we get a-lot more from voice/video... Tone, cadence, even some emotion. Plus throughput when Jitsi works. | 14:11 |
| jelkner | Stephen_Hubbard, i wanted to respond to the investigation you did on membership organizations | 14:11 |
| smohamud | (For another day, though) | 14:11 |
| Stephen_Hubbard | What is our current quorum number? | 14:11 |
| smohamud | *IRC is a great backup. | 14:11 |
| jelkner | since we don't need to vote on anything at the moment | 14:12 |
| jelkner | we don't need a quorum | 14:12 |
| chris_ | Stephen_Hubbard, hard to say. at some point we should maintain a document (in nextcloud?) with a list of members | 14:12 |
| jelkner | but what chris_ was saying really applies | 14:12 |
| chris_ | and eventually which circle they're in | 14:12 |
| jkollie | can we start now? | 14:12 |
| jelkner | we need to figure out who wants to do stuff with us | 14:12 |
| jelkner | and get doing it! | 14:12 |
| Stephen_Hubbard | I wanted to discuss the Social Justice Reporter GoFundMe campaign... | 14:12 |
| jelkner | PLEASE jkollie | 14:12 |
| jkollie | okay | 14:13 |
| jkollie | !agenda 6QS7 | 14:13 |
| Websterss | **Agenda for '6QS7 - SJC meeting'** [⏸ INACTIVE - Use !add 6QS7 <item> to add items] | 14:13 |
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| jelkner | jkollie, may i please speak to item 1? | 14:13 |
| jkollie | Please do | 14:14 |
| jelkner | Stephen_Hubbard, i hope to answer the questions you posed regarding membership organizations at this same time | 14:14 |
| jelkner | here goes... | 14:14 |
| jelkner | IMHO, SJC should be an organization of people who want to "use information technology in the service of social justice" | 14:15 |
| jelkner | that is our mission | 14:15 |
| jelkner | so it should be a no-brainer that that is what unites us | 14:15 |
| jelkner | that also implies to me, people who do things | 14:15 |
| Stephen_Hubbard | I am not going to oppose a membership organization. Just have no experience with it so my first step is caution, so you don't have to convince me... | 14:15 |
| jelkner | i'm not trying to convince you, i'm just trying to explain what kind of membership organization i'm thinking we should be | 14:16 |
| Stephen_Hubbard | especially by typing it out... | 14:16 |
| jelkner | so, if we are an organization of activists | 14:16 |
| jelkner | to be a member should mean (and require) actively participating in one or more of our projects | 14:17 |
| jelkner | this is where sociocracy comes in | 14:17 |
| jelkner | it is a governance structure designed for folks who want to get things done | 14:17 |
| jelkner | so to make it more concrete | 14:17 |
| jelkner | in the old way of thinking about things | 14:18 |
| jelkner | Dr. Hubbard wants to set up a GoFundMe for the social justice reporter | 14:18 |
| jelkner | he comes to the monthly board meeting to talk about that | 14:18 |
| smohamud has quit (Remote host closed the connection) | 14:18 | |
| jelkner | in the new way, he doesn't need to do that at all | 14:18 |
| jelkner | instead, he is leader of the Social Justice Reporter Circle | 14:19 |
| jelkner | which is comprised of members who want to *work* on that project | 14:19 |
| jelkner | they make the decisions relevant to it | 14:19 |
| jelkner | they have the autonomy to meet on their own schedule | 14:19 |
| jelkner | and to make decisions effecting their project on their own | 14:20 |
| jelkner | so the get things done! | 14:20 |
| jelkner | the role of this body (the General Circle) | 14:20 |
| jelkner | which will be made up of folks selected to be here by the other circles | 14:20 |
| smohamud | Is the purpose of being membership organization to make project management easier? If so, maybe we could just get a KANBAN board with multiple Projects/Work Items. | 14:20 |
| jelkner | will be to deal with by-laws, taxes, et6c. | 14:21 |
| chris_ | in this model - we trust members of circles to make decisions in the best interest of the org. is there some central oversight before major decisions? eg is a new public-facing fundraisijng campaing something the general circle should consider before it launches? | 14:21 |
| jelkner | yes chris_ | 14:21 |
| jelkner | i've never tried this in practice before | 14:21 |
| jelkner | but i can totally imagine that being a concern | 14:21 |
| jelkner | but not a huge one | 14:21 |
| smohamud | got more questions but I'll reach out to you separately. | 14:21 |
| jelkner | the work drives the process | 14:22 |
| jelkner | it's what we're here for | 14:22 |
| chris_ | i think this is a good example. the gofundme page would say "SJC", not "the SJ reporter circle of SJC", so I'd want to make sure the general body is on board? | 14:22 |
| jelkner | sure | 14:22 |
| jelkner | but someone from that circle (in full fledge sociocracy it is actually two people) will be in the general circle | 14:22 |
| jelkner | so that's where that stuff can be discussed | 14:23 |
| jelkner | this is good | 14:23 |
| jelkner | more questions? | 14:23 |
| jelkner | i propose we just start doing it | 14:23 |
| smohamud | +1 | 14:24 |
| chris_ | yep. i guess i'm just asking about order of operations. I think this is a "bias toward action" system - so the circle can act on behalf of the organization without waiting for specific approval from the general circle | 14:24 |
| jelkner | and learn from our experience in the months ahead | 14:24 |
| jelkner | we will revise based on real practice, rather than purely hypothetical concerns | 14:24 |
| jelkner | i think it will be awesome, and energizing, personally | 14:24 |
| jelkner | since we'll start getting things done | 14:24 |
| chris_ | i'm a little worried that leads to chaos - but i'm willing to give it a shot. chaos from doing too much too fast would be a nice problem to have =) | 14:24 |
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| jelkner | well, let's talk a bit more about rules for membership | 14:25 |
| jelkner | i'm thinking that we don't want to charge anybody any kind of dues or anything | 14:25 |
| jelkner | we are an activist organization | 14:25 |
| Stephen_Hubbard | But I think any general circle member should first ask for permission to spend funds before they commit to spending them... | 14:25 |
| jelkner | requirements should be all based on work | 14:26 |
| jelkner | ahh, you're absolutely right, Stephen_Hubbard | 14:26 |
| jelkner | it when real money gets involved, that the tensions can start | 14:26 |
| jelkner | but for now, we have no money | 14:26 |
| jelkner | so it's the perfect to begin experimenting! ;-) | 14:27 |
| smohamud | +1 Stephen | 14:27 |
| jelkner | still, i can imaging it going like this | 14:27 |
| smohamud | +1 Jeff | 14:27 |
| jelkner | you, Stephen_Hubbard, offer to lead the circle for your project | 14:27 |
| Stephen_Hubbard | What is the +1 for, voting for request for funding expenditure, or SJ reporter fundraiser? | 14:28 |
| jelkner | you recruit other members who want to work with you on it | 14:28 |
| smohamud | About no dues | 14:28 |
| Stephen_Hubbard | Or for membership org... | 14:28 |
| jelkner | we agree ahead of time what the project is | 14:28 |
| jelkner | it is to build the website to crowd source our nation's crumbling infrastructure | 14:28 |
| jelkner | it is clear that the GoFundMe you are proposing is for that and that alone | 14:29 |
| jelkner | so your circle will manage those funds accordingly | 14:29 |
| jelkner | my only concern would be what chris_ mentioned | 14:29 |
| jelkner | that in representing yourselves to the world | 14:29 |
| Stephen_Hubbard | Ok. So I'm currently funding the first month or two of development, but that's all the $$ I have... hence then need for the fundraiser. | 14:29 |
| jelkner | you are aligned with the values of our organizations | 14:30 |
| jelkner | that can be a sticky wicket for sure | 14:30 |
| jelkner | but we are generally on the same page | 14:30 |
| jelkner | and i think we can make it work | 14:30 |
| jelkner | chris_, and i have a $25K grant coming | 14:31 |
| jelkner | so the same thing applies | 14:31 |
| jelkner | we will want to recruit a group of activists to work on that project | 14:31 |
| jelkner | we will want feedback, but not micromanagement, from the general circle | 14:31 |
| jelkner | we will recruit new members to our organization through our work | 14:32 |
| jelkner | so since to be a member means to be an activist | 14:32 |
| Stephen_Hubbard | Operationally, I also agree with Chris, we need a way to manage what we are committing to so we don't get overwhelmed, especially since we have trouble communicating due to technical and time zone issues... | 14:32 |
| jelkner | we will become an activist organization in practice | 14:32 |
| chris_ | jelkner, we'll also need to be able to pay employees as part of that grant. those employees won't necessarily be members, right? | 14:32 |
| jelkner | right chris_ | 14:33 |
| jelkner | and yes Stephen_Hubbard | 14:33 |
| jelkner | so how do you think we should proceed? | 14:33 |
| chris_ | i'd like to vote today, form initial circles, and get to work | 14:33 |
| Stephen_Hubbard | I second the vote... | 14:33 |
| smohamud | +1 | 14:33 |
| jelkner | i ask you both to propose solutions, not just objections | 14:33 |
| Stephen_Hubbard | +1 | 14:33 |
| jelkner | +1 | 14:34 |
| Stephen_Hubbard | +1 to try membership organization structure for some time period to see if we can make it work... | 14:34 |
| jkollie | +1 for me | 14:34 |
| jelkner | yup, that's the proposal on the floor | 14:34 |
| smohamud | +1 to try membership organization structure for some time period to see if we can make it work... | 14:34 |
| chris_ | can we be specific then about the exact proposal: it's to ammend the bylaws? Do we need specific language? | 14:35 |
| jelkner | if we approve, we form circles and start trying it out | 14:35 |
| jelkner | chris_, yes, but not yet | 14:35 |
| jelkner | that's a big task | 14:35 |
| jelkner | and in my experience, we soon bog down in it | 14:35 |
| jelkner | i would like to see the following in the bylaws eventually, something like: | 14:35 |
| Stephen_Hubbard | We also will need some sort of online project management tool so that a person in the General Circle or a specific Project Circle can see what is happening, who is in charge of what, and report their work or take the next steps assigned to them. | 14:36 |
| jelkner | 1. SJC is a membership organization made up of activists who participate in at least two meetings per month of a project circle for work of the organization | 14:36 |
| jelkner | 2. The general circle (which will be the board) is elected annually by each circle, and serves as the official board for purposes of the Virginia government | 14:37 |
| chris_ | yep, i'm aligned with all that. For today, is the proposal: "maintain our existing legal structure, but start acting like a sociocracy organization as a learning experience" | 14:37 |
| jelkner | then we can grow as our activity grows | 14:37 |
| Stephen_Hubbard | I will ask Claude to modify our bylaws for a membership org and then send it out to everyone... | 14:38 |
| jelkner | LOL | 14:38 |
| jelkner | Deepseek, PLEASE! Not Claude! ;-) | 14:38 |
| smohamud | +1 | 14:38 |
| jelkner | I don't want tech oligarchs telling me what to do | 14:38 |
| jelkner | I don't want to be a slave. | 14:39 |
| jelkner | lol | 14:39 |
| Stephen_Hubbard | Chris, we could also work on the needed management process and project management support tools, which I'm sure exist for free, but have no idea what's out there... | 14:39 |
| jelkner | Stephen_Hubbard, in the beginning, less is more | 14:39 |
| jelkner | and nothing succeeds like success | 14:39 |
| jelkner | we don't need a lot of infrastructure at first | 14:39 |
| jelkner | we just need to DO STUFF! | 14:40 |
| jelkner | we know what needs to be done for the most part | 14:40 |
| jelkner | we are blocking on not doing it | 14:40 |
| jelkner | i tend to rebel against meta conversations | 14:41 |
| Stephen_Hubbard | I'm not thinking of a 500 cell CPM diagram but something more than "lets go work on stuff... | 14:41 |
| jelkner | structure matters | 14:41 |
| jelkner | i'm not trying to be one-sided | 14:41 |
| jelkner | but our error now is not too little structure | 14:41 |
| jelkner | it's too little read *stuff* to organize | 14:41 |
| Stephen_Hubbard | And yes, I agree, at the start, simple is best... | 14:41 |
| jelkner | s/read/real | 14:41 |
| jelkner | ok let's start some circles | 14:42 |
| jelkner | remember, if you want to be part of SJC, you should identify at least one project / circle you want to work on | 14:42 |
| jelkner | that's why we exist | 14:42 |
| jkollie | +1 jelkner | 14:43 |
| Stephen_Hubbard | Ok, I'll use Deepseek.... | 14:43 |
| jelkner | National Infrastructure Bank Circle seems like a good place to start, what do you think, Stephen_Hubbard? | 14:43 |
| Stephen_Hubbard | It's top rated right now anyway... | 14:43 |
| jelkner | and it is open | 14:43 |
| jelkner | which means it is ours | 14:44 |
| Stephen_Hubbard | Ok. | 14:44 |
| jelkner | back to your circle | 14:44 |
| jkollie | can we move to the next agenda item now? | 14:44 |
| jelkner | yes jkollie | 14:44 |
| jkollie | !agenda 6QS7 | 14:45 |
| Websterss | **Agenda for '6QS7 - SJC meeting'** [⏸ INACTIVE - Use !add 6QS7 <item> to add items] | 14:45 |
| jelkner | so 2 changes in light of the discussion we just had | 14:45 |
| chris_ | before we move on, just to be clear. did the motion language get approved and voted on? are we going to define the circles today? Or will that happen offline? | 14:45 |
| jelkner | the goal now is to form circles | 14:45 |
| jelkner | we don't want this meeting to have to micromanage these things | 14:46 |
| jelkner | the Go Fund Me campaign is a project for that circle | 14:46 |
| jelkner | so we need to form the circles | 14:46 |
| jelkner | we need, in essence, to figure out who is working on what | 14:46 |
| chris_ | yes. i'd like to come out of this meeting with a list of circles and their membership | 14:46 |
| jelkner | +1! | 14:46 |
| Stephen_Hubbard | Well, right now we have at least 2 circles: (1) the donated computers and, (2) Infrastructure/Social Justice Reporter... | 14:46 |
| jelkner | and a 3rd | 14:47 |
| smohamud | I would like to join Social Justice Reporter (SJR) circle. | 14:47 |
| smohamud | (Go Fund Me) | 14:47 |
| jelkner | the Tech Worker Coop circle | 14:47 |
| Stephen_Hubbard | Ok. Thanks... | 14:47 |
| jelkner | can i ask you a question, Stephen_Hubbard? | 14:47 |
| smohamud | 100% | 14:47 |
| Stephen_Hubbard | Yes... | 14:47 |
| chris_ | (just for record completenss i'm okay saying that we did pass the motion that we start following the sociocracy model by unanimous consent) | 14:48 |
| smohamud | Same | 14:48 |
| Stephen_Hubbard | I believe so if we had a quorum vote... | 14:48 |
| jelkner | instead of calling it the Social Justice Reporter circle, i think of it as the National Infrastructure Bank circle, since if I understand you, that is the goal, while the former is just one project on the way to that goal. | 14:48 |
| jelkner | Is that accurate? | 14:48 |
| jelkner | i agree chris_ | 14:49 |
| jelkner | we're moving ahead with it | 14:49 |
| smohamud | I would need to know more about that vision. | 14:50 |
| Stephen_Hubbard | No. It should be the Infrastructure Reporter/Social Justice Reporter circle. I'm, not sure which name to use, or which one will be more successful for the fundraiser. The idea is the software can be adopted to anything you want to report on, not just potholes... | 14:50 |
| jelkner | chris_, should we call our circle the Digital Equity Circle? | 14:50 |
| smohamud | But definitely want to join whatever we name it. | 14:50 |
| Stephen_Hubbard | So voting irregularities, social issues, etc. | 14:50 |
| jelkner | cool, we'll wait to hear from y'all on what you name it | 14:50 |
| jelkner | chris_? | 14:50 |
| chris_ | digital equity circle is a great name | 14:50 |
| jelkner | cool | 14:50 |
| jelkner | and the 3rd circle is the solidarity economy circle | 14:50 |
| jelkner | which is the one i've been funding | 14:51 |
| Stephen_Hubbard | What is that? | 14:51 |
| jelkner | that is the one promoting worker co-ops in the tech sector | 14:51 |
| jelkner | it has jelkner and smohamud and dcammue in it | 14:51 |
| Stephen_Hubbard | Ok... | 14:51 |
| jelkner | oh an jkollie | 14:51 |
| jelkner | can't forget our president! | 14:51 |
| jkollie | lol | 14:52 |
| jelkner | and anyone else who want to join us | 14:52 |
| jelkner | but in practice, we are already operating | 14:52 |
| jelkner | since we've been at it the longest, we'll try to model how this might work | 14:52 |
| jelkner | between now and next general circle meeting | 14:52 |
| smohamud | sounds good | 14:52 |
| jelkner | we will have at least two meetings (both here in this channel) to work on our goals | 14:53 |
| jelkner | chris_, i'm also part of the digital equity circle | 14:53 |
| jelkner | and we will soon be bringing in new members through that project | 14:54 |
| chris_ | yes. And we'll certainly have >2 meetings per month =) | 14:54 |
| jelkner | +1 | 14:54 |
| jelkner | a lot more!! | 14:54 |
| jelkner | ok, we need website work | 14:55 |
| jelkner | but we can put that off until next month? | 14:55 |
| jelkner | our hour is almost up | 14:55 |
| Stephen_Hubbard | What is the digital equality circle? | 14:55 |
| jelkner | Stephen_Hubbard, that is the $25K grant that chris_ and i got | 14:55 |
| jkollie | I was hoping you would tell me more about the digital equity circle | 14:56 |
| jelkner | for loaning / giving FOSS laptops to students and community members in Arlington, VA | 14:56 |
| jkollie | jelkner | 14:56 |
| jelkner | the circles overlap for sure | 14:56 |
| chris_ | (the grant comes with a requirement that we hire students to do a bunch of work, network wtih community partners, and a bunch of other stuff. And since that happened, a bunch of other people ahve started donating old computers to us. This is going to be a huge project) | 14:56 |
| jelkner | since we will need to build a web application to manage the process | 14:56 |
| jelkner | and, chris_ as i'm sure we will find out | 14:57 |
| chris_ | My hope is that I'll soon migrate to focusing only on that circle. Once we get the sociocracy model up and running, I hope to *not* be involve din the general circle so that i can focus on this one | 14:57 |
| jelkner | when our interns can't handle all the website dev work well enough, there may be work for Jetro | 14:57 |
| jelkner | in fact, that's the kind of model we want | 14:57 |
| jelkner | giving students real internships where they work side-by-side with professionals | 14:58 |
| jelkner | in the solidarity economy! ;=) | 14:58 |
| chris_ | yes | 14:58 |
| jelkner | OMG, a dream come true!!! :=) | 14:58 |
| jelkner | anything else before we go? | 14:59 |
| jelkner | jkollie, we are almost out of time | 14:59 |
| jkollie | yeah jelkner | 14:59 |
| jelkner | oh. last thing | 14:59 |
| jkollie | and I think we cover all the agenda at once | 14:59 |
| jelkner | there is around $1500 in our account | 15:00 |
| jelkner | which is going to go for smohamud's 2nd grant month | 15:00 |
| jelkner | i'll be transferring that later today | 15:00 |
| jelkner | Stephen_Hubbard, you haven't put the $500 in yet, right? | 15:00 |
| jelkner | i don't see it | 15:00 |
| Stephen_Hubbard | No. I will do that today or tomorrow... | 15:00 |
| jelkner | cool | 15:00 |
| jelkner | great meeting everyone! | 15:01 |
| jelkner | we got stuff done! | 15:01 |
| smohamud | take care all | 15:01 |
| jelkner | i always feel energized when that happens | 15:01 |
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| Stephen_Hubbard | Bye all! | 15:01 |
| chris_ | great chatting with you all. have a good sunday =) | 15:01 |
| jkollie | Thank you all for showing up | 15:01 |
| jelkner | ACTION signs off | 15:01 |
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| chris_ has quit (Quit: Leaving) | 15:02 | |
| Stephen_Hubbard has quit (Remote host closed the connection) | 15:04 | |
| jkollie has quit (Quit: Leaving) | 15:07 | |
| devesh has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity) | 17:09 | |
| dcammue has quit (Ping timeout: 480 seconds) | 18:24 | |
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