IRC log of #novawebdev for Sunday, 2017-06-18

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ubuntouristProfessor.10:00
ubuntouristG'day Professor jelkner, young Jedi, mjsir91110:01
ubuntouristCan you translate to English, the question:10:02
ubuntourist"Find the value of the constant a for which the polynomial x**3​ ​+​ ​ax**2​ ​−​ ​1 will have -1 as a zero"10:03
ubuntouristDo they mean "When x is -1, what values for a will result in zero?"10:03
jelknerGood morning, ubuntourist!10:04
ubuntouristHold on.  After the sixth reading, I think I understand the question. Never mind.10:04
ubuntourist(And it does appear to mean what I had postulated.)10:06
jelknerGreat!  I'm trying to review logorithms on Khan Academy before taking that section10:08
jelknerI bombed the trig section10:08
ubuntouristSo they separate trig and logs? (Seems I had them in the same course in high school...)10:12
ubuntouristI'm as usual, relying on my logic skills rather than my memorization skills.  This makes me VERY slow, as I am essentially reinventing the math10:14
ubuntouristand not necessarily coming up with formulas for solving the equations, but rather, constructing one-off solutions.10:14
ubuntouristThat, plus the few mnemonic devices I remember (e.g. FOIL for polynomials)10:17
jelknerWow, mjsir911, what a lot of pre-course work!11:15
mjsir911yea11:16
mjsir911I stopped after the trig11:16
jelknerSince I did well enough on the logorithm and exponent section, it wanted me to take the calculus pretest, but I skipped that, since I'm going to take the course along with you in any case.11:16
jelknerYou're bad, mjsir911!11:16
mjsir911The geometry questions were a bit confusing, what did it mean with that sphere one?11:16
jelknerYou can't skip anything else now that the course has started!11:17
jelknerAhh, the surface area11:17
mjsir911of the entire sphere on 1/8 of it?11:17
jelkneryou basically has 3/4 the area of the circle11:17
jelknersince 3 of the sides were 1/4 sections of a circle11:17
jelknerand then a 1/8 surface area of a sphere for the 4th side11:18
mjsir911ik the equation of a circle is 4*pi*r**211:18
jelknerthe area of a circle is pi r **211:18
jelknerso 3/4 pi r ** 211:18
jelkner+ 1/8 4 pi r ** 211:19
mjsir911im confused, am i trying to find the entire surface area or a part of it?11:20
jelknerremember we are on our honor not to post solutions to these problems11:20
mjsir911I'm asking what the question is asking11:20
jelkneri wonder if there is a good online free software whiteboard tool we could use to meet online while i'm in vermont?11:20
jelknerthe question was asking you for the surface area of that four sided figure11:21
jelknerthree of the sides were quarter circles11:21
mjsir911Oh I see11:22
mjsir911Thats where I was confused11:22
jelknerand the fourth side was an eighth of a sphere11:22
mjsir911Yea I figured it out11:22
mjsir911ty11:22
jelknerbut you're in the course now, yes?11:22
jelknerbtw, are your folks around?11:23
jelknerwould this be a good time to call them?11:23
jelknermjsir911?11:23
mjsir911Yea you could call my dad11:23
mjsir911my mom is in chicago11:23
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jelknermjsir911, are you here?12:07
mjsir911 I am here12:07
jelknerWe are a week behind in our course (since it started on June 7), so we should try to catch up.12:07
mjsir911Yep, im doing just that12:08
jelkneri'm doing the section on limits now, which will be easy for me, but will be new to you.12:08
jelkneri would encourage you to think about how you can leverage jupyter while you are learning this12:08
mjsir911I'm doing just that!12:09
jelknerand the testing tool you showed me that generates lots of data points12:09
mjsir911? you mean for a graph?12:09
jelkneri figured you were, but just saying ;-)12:09
mjsir911or hypothesis?12:09
jelknerhypothesis12:09
jelkneryes12:09
mjsir911oh yea how could I use that?12:09
jelkneri'm not sure, since you know it and i don't12:10
jelknerbut if you could tune it to generate a lot of points near (but not equal to) the value you are looking for12:10
jelknerand to come in from the left and right respectively12:10
jelknerit could be a big help in visualizing these ideas12:10
mjsir911ill try to look into it12:11
jelkneranyway, the most important thing is to do the math12:11
jelknerso don't get too distracted12:11
mjsir911of course :P12:11
jelknerbut if you think of any low hanging fruit, go for it!12:11
jelknerok, back to my lessons...12:11
jelknermjsir911, just added you as a collaborator on https://github.com/jelkner/Calculus1A12:20
jelknerI wanted to add ubuntourist as well, but I can't find his github name12:21
mjsir911thx12:21
jelknerfound it12:23
jelknerinvited him too12:24
jelkneranytime they say "bring out a calculator", we should use python12:24
mjsir911Ok so I found an extension to link github and jupyterhub12:26
jelknermjsir911, did you study the formal definition of limit in precalc this year?12:31
mjsir911its just placing a limit on the domain of a function isnt it?12:32
mjsir911i think we did12:32
jelknerso that means you didn't learn it :-(12:32
jelknersince you wouldn't "think you did" if you did ;-)12:32
jelknerlimit has a precise mathematical definition12:33
jelknerit is a very interesting idea12:33
jelknerit says basically that a function has a limit of some value when given any delta (they love to use greek letters for variables in calc ;-) close to x, there is an epsilon within which f(x) will fall12:36
jelknersince we say *any* epsilon, it means you can find a range of values close to x that will guarantee that f(x) is as close to the value as you want.12:38
jelknerif you can do that, you have a limit12:38
jelkneryou will need to grok that idea to be ready for calculus12:38
ubuntouristDo you have time for the slower child?12:38
jelknercertainly12:38
jelkneri think talking about it together will help all of us really "get it"12:39
jelknerbut we need to work hard, since we need to try to keep up with the course12:39
jelkneri'm going to pitch this to Mr. Zawolo tomorrow12:39
ubuntouristI'm only missing one of the algebra questions: I get 0, 2, -2 for all solutions to x**3 - x**2 - 2x = 0.  Apparently, I'm wrong. Is there one that I'm missing?12:40
jelknerand argue that doing this is why he should setup an special section for our young Padawan here12:40
mjsir911ubuntourist plug all your answers in to confirm they are correct12:41
jelknerso you factor out x, and get x * (x**2 - x - 2)12:41
jelknerthen factor (x**2 - x - 2) into (x - 2)(x + 1)12:41
jelknerso the solution set is...12:42
jelknerx is an element of {0, 2, -1}12:42
ubuntourist(I've correctly answered all of the others.) I did. (2**3 - 2**2 - 2*2 = 8 - 4 - 4 = 0). (-2**3 - -2**2 - -2*2 = -8 + 4 + 4 = 0). (0**3 - 0**2 - 2*0) = 0 - 0 - 0 = 0).12:44
mjsir9112 ** 3 = -812:44
mjsir911i mean -2 ** 312:44
mjsir911oh duh sorry12:45
mjsir9111 second12:45
mjsir911-2 ** 2 = 412:45
mjsir911its a problem with the math on the -212:45
ubuntouristThis is why my logic scores were always in the 98 percentile, while my clerical speed and accuracy were always in the 3 percentile. ;-)12:46
jelknerubuntourist, did you accept my invitation to the github repo for this?12:46
jelknerwe can leverage our python skills to make exploring these functions a lot more accurate12:47
jelknerso we can focus on the logic12:47
jelknerwe'll learn some computer science along the way, too, since we will have to deal with the details of floating point numbers (yuck!)12:48
jelkneri'm planning on leaning on mjsir911 to learn jupyter notebooks while we go through this12:49
jelknerso we can easily generate graphs and visualizations that will help us12:49
jelknergrok the math12:49
mjsir911jelkner, look into numpy.linspace for limits12:57
mjsir911to calculate 1000 numbers, starting at 0 and approaching 1, you would generate an array: numpy.linspace(0, 1, 1000, endpoint=False)12:58
jelknerhere is my plan, mjsir911: i am going to move as quick as i can to catch up with the course12:58
jelknersince i already know this math, it shouldn't take that long12:58
jelknerthen, while you proceed through the math looking for understanding, i'll focus on the python tools to support learning12:59
jelkneri just pushed g, h, and j functions to the repo12:59
jelkneri just used the python shell to explore them12:59
jelknerthere are better ways, i know, but for now, i want the simplest thing that works12:59
jelknerpython as a calculator ;-)13:00
ubuntouristjelkner, I wasn't looking at e-mail. Just saw the invite.13:08
jelknergreat13:09
ubuntouristjelkner, also in my inbox: "Re: [EDU-SIG] AP Calculus with Jupyter". I forwarded more so you'd know who's talking about it, rather than the conversation itself.13:11
ubuntouristAnd, with that, I'm off-line and getting lunch13:12
jelkner*very* important quote from Unit 0.9: "this idea of the limit is really the building block for all of calculus"13:13
jelknermjsir911, still here?13:25
mjsir911yep13:25
jelknermy brother is visiting me from puerto rico, so i need to leave soon, but i plan to finish Unit 0 first13:26
jelknerthen do Unit 1 tomorrow13:26
jelknerit occurs to me that if mr. zawolo is game, you could be a real resource in the class13:26
mjsir911I'm still on the introduction to limits13:27
jelknernp, i've done this before13:27
jelknerso i plan to move faster than you should13:27
jelknerthis is just a quick review for me13:27
mjsir911ok, i'm going to log everything im doing on jupyter so yea I could be helpful13:27
jelknerwhen i get ahead of you, i'll focus on the python tools you tell me to look into13:27
jelknersweet13:27
jelknerthat13:28
jelkneris what i was thinking13:28
jelknerby completing math 173 before september13:28
jelkneror largely completing it, in any case13:28
mjsir911yea, I have to go too13:28
jelkneryou can help mr. zawolo and i do integration for the other students13:28
mjsir911Oh definitely13:29
mjsir911see you later13:29
jelknerlater gater13:29
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