IRC log of #novawebdev for Tuesday, 2017-06-27

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jelknerGood morning, Bots!08:30
jelkner!remind Discuss NEA4OR Logo and website08:52
remindBotwill print Discuss NEA4OR Logo and website at 2017-06-27 19:00:0008:52
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jelkner!remind Look into Modernizr (https://modernizr.com/) for feature detection and legacy browser support?10:00
remindBotwill print Look into Modernizr (https://modernizr.com/) for feature detection and legacy browser support? at 2017-06-27 19:00:0010:00
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jelkner!remind Talk about business plan and timeline12:33
remindBotwill print Talk about business plan and timeline at 2017-06-27 19:00:0012:33
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mjsir911Connecting thru my phone due to moving houses so my connection might be a bit flaky18:51
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remindBotDiscuss github work flow for nea4or website19:00
remindBotDiscuss NEA4OR Logo and website19:00
remindBotLook into Modernizr (https://modernizr.com/) for feature detection and legacy browser support?19:00
remindBotTalk about business plan and timeline19:00
jelknerAny second now the remindBot will speak ;-)19:00
jelknerGood evening everyone!19:00
replaceafillhi everyone19:00
Rena_hi19:00
louiseahello. Good evening19:00
nrcernaHello!19:00
jelknerThere were a few nuts and bolts items on the list, but since i fear our agenda is too long, are folks ok with starting with the most generally important item?19:01
jelknerwhich is business plan and timeline19:01
louiseaThat sounds good to me.19:01
Rena_sure19:01
replaceafill+119:01
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jelknerSo, i would say we are *approaching* the level of marketable skills we need to be a properly professional outfit19:02
mr_german_mobileHello19:02
louiseaHi German19:03
jelknerwe also have a limited amount of financial resources to keep going the way we are going19:03
jelknerhi mr_german19:03
mr_german_mobileHello19:03
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jelkneri've told mr_german and z0nny that i can only support their internships until the end of august19:04
jelknerlouisea told me that he will actually have more time available beginning in september19:04
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ubuntouristSorry 'bout that.19:04
jelkneri just found out from replaceafill that he will have much more availability during the next few months19:05
jelknersince he won't have another job ;-)19:05
replaceafillstarting on august to be specific19:05
jelknerdescussing this with him, i'm thinking that i should do what it takes to keep us going until november19:06
ubuntouristCatching up (reading the log): I was just thinking about Modernizr for Patrick's site. 19:07
jelknerby then, we need to be pretty much generating enough revenue to keep us going19:07
Rena_louis got me a paid gig to redo a childcare site that is moving away from wordpress19:07
jelknersweet!19:07
jelknerthat's what we need19:07
jelknermore and more of those19:07
louiseaand I discussed with Rena some other options and drafted a solicitation letter for her to look at19:08
jelknerso Rena_, you will get experience keeping track of your time, invoicing, etc.19:08
jelknerbeautiful19:08
jelknerlouisea, please share that with all of us19:08
louiseawill do.19:08
ubuntouristRena_ the result of the meeting louisea and I attended, I presume.19:08
Rena_yeah, well short after19:09
louiseaubuntourist, yes19:09
jelknerso this is great, websters!19:09
jelknerwe are moving forward on a few different fronts19:10
louiseaand I was thinking, that in order to support someone like Rena_ for a year with these types of 2 week jobs at $20.00/hr. we we need to get like 4 of them a month19:10
Rena_I thought it was 30 :( :P19:10
ubuntouristjelkner, I've nudged, but additional nudging re: Gallaudet's message about budgeting.19:10
jelknerubuntourist, and we are still looking into national hospital, yes?19:11
ubuntouristjelkner, I contacted Patrick, telling him my "download everything" commands missed stuff. I'm awaiting a thumb drive from him.19:12
* jelkner thinks that louisea and Rena_ need to talk about how much they are charging19:12
jelknerand come to some agreement19:12
ubuntouristI was thinking about tools like modernizr + tidy to see how much auto-cleanup is possible.19:12
Rena_louis, do you want to meet on the phone after this to discuss getting started?19:13
jelknerany idea when you will decide if we can do it?19:13
ubuntourist(It may be time to revisit my meager BeautifulSoup skills.)19:13
louiseaRena_, sounds good19:13
Rena_just call me at 703-508-0293 when the meetings over19:14
jelknerand i'll stay here with mr_german, z0nny, and ncerna to talk about the projects they are working on19:14
mr_german_mobileOk19:14
jelknerthat way we don't have to take up everyone's time with details that they don't need19:14
mjsir911I have to go soon, is there anything on the agenda that I have to be here for that we could do?19:15
ubuntouristmjsir911 Gallaudet estimate?19:15
louiseaand here is a link to the draft solicitation letters: https://drive.google.com/open?id=19G3tHhIKffa2qoSAhjdYEhBq5I8xnir2JcDg9FX6iM019:15
mjsir911huh?19:15
Rena_thats for me19:16
jelknermjsir911, you should be checking in with ubuntourist19:16
ubuntouristmjsir911 e-mail sent earlier today: Gallaudet wants to to know how much money we're going to eat by Sept 30.19:16
mjsir911Oh right I got that19:16
ubuntouristmjsir911 check your inbox.19:16
mjsir911Oh 9 hours a week at the current rate we're going19:17
jelknerso mjsir911 and ubuntourist, it is most important that you two be able to estimate things like that19:17
replaceafillnice letter(s) louisea19:17
mjsir911170 hours19:17
mjsir911From some quick math19:18
ubuntouristmjsir911 OK. I'll give 'em that.19:18
louiseathank you replaceafill19:18
mjsir911Yep gtg bye19:18
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jelknerany other issues regarding outreach and serving current customers?19:19
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louiseajelkner, not yet19:19
ubuntouristjelkner, are you receiving mail sent to the novawebdevelopment.com address?19:20
jelkneri believe i am19:20
jelknerthe only other thing i have is to talk about next week19:21
jelkneri'll be at the NEA Convention, and will probably be unable to attend19:21
ubuntouristjelkner: The last thing I sent was in response to today's NEA Our Revolution message from you.19:21
jelknerdoes anyone want to take charge of that meeting, or should we ask replaceafill again?19:21
jelkneryes, ubuntourist, i got it19:22
jelknervolunteers?19:22
ubuntouristjelkner excellent. Just making sure.19:22
jelknerit is really important to meet each week19:22
jelknerand to try to be here19:22
louiseaanyone who knows about the technical work would be best. But I'll give an update from my side of things19:23
jelknerreplaceafill, can you do it again?19:23
replaceafillsure19:23
jelknerthanks19:23
jelkneri'll be sure to read the logs19:23
jelknerthat works well19:24
replaceafilljelkner, we should discuss the agenda by the end of the week if possible19:24
replaceafillwill you be around?19:24
jelkneri'll be available on thursday19:24
jelknerthe convention starts on friday19:24
replaceafillah ok19:24
jelknerand ends on july 5th19:24
replaceafillwe can use email too19:25
jelknerso i won't be reliably available again until july 6th19:25
replaceafillbut i'll just ask for brief updates19:25
replaceafill(if nothing else comes up)19:25
jelknergreat19:25
jelkneri think things will start coming up more and more19:25
jelkneras we get more customers, we will need to check our workflow, technical challenges, communications, etc.19:26
jelknernot to mention checking in with each other to make sure we are having fun! ;-)19:26
replaceafill:)19:26
jelknerok, if no one has anything else, let's end now19:27
Rena_fun? with IRC? naaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah19:27
jelknerlol19:27
jelkneryes, Rena_, irc is a blast!19:27
Rena_a blast in my ass19:27
mr_german:D?19:27
* jelkner drops the bag of gravel19:27
replaceafillthanks everybody19:28
jelknersee you in 2 weeks, everyone19:28
mr_germano/19:28
louiseaalright. See you all later. Have a good time!19:28
jelknermr_german, z0nny, ncerna, can we check in on the projects you are working on?19:28
zOnnyI just made some changes to your weblog jelkner don´t forget push it.19:28
louiseaRena_ want to give me a call now? I'm free19:28
Rena_yeah sure19:28
nrcernabye! jelkner 19:28
jelknerncerana, don't go yet19:29
jelknerz0nny, i did a pull a 1/2 hour ago and didn't see anything new19:29
zOnnytry again19:29
jelknerthen i added a new blog entry and pushed19:29
nrcernaOk :)19:29
zOnnyo.O?19:30
jelknerlet me start with nea4or and then talk about ABlog19:30
* ubuntourist bows out.19:30
jelknerlater ubuntourist19:30
jelknerthe new url is now up and running: nea4or.us19:31
jelkneroh, replaceafill, we will need your advice on this19:31
replaceafillsure19:31
jelknerhttps://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0Bxq50A7-FeDXRFBvUjhpWUQ4NVE19:32
jelknerthis is what the website looks like in IE19:32
mr_germanjelkner, GRID is not supported in IE19:33
jelkneryes, mr_german, *a lot* of things are not supported in IE! :-(19:33
mr_germanhttps://caniuse.com/#search=grid19:33
jelknerit was brought to my attention when i was on the phone with the secretary of my local union and she had trouble understanding the site19:34
jelknerso, the question is, how do we handle this situation?19:34
jelknerwe have limited resources, so i don't want to spend too much on IE compatibility19:35
jelknerbut this *may* be the right time to look into some of the javascript tools available to handle things like this19:36
jelkneri would only want to do that if we could keep them *loosely coupled* to our site.19:36
replaceafillloosely coupled?19:37
jelknerwhat i mean by that is that they should not interfere with the proper functioning of the site on supported browsers without the19:37
jelknerthem19:37
jelknerdon't modify the website so that it requires the fix19:37
jelknerfrom what i've read, that's the way they are supposed to work19:38
jelkneryou have something that checks for availablility of a feature, and mimics it only if it is unavailable19:38
replaceafillcorrect19:38
replaceafillbut you're using the detect feature19:39
replaceafillso it's not decoupled, right?19:39
jelknermaybe i'm using that term wrong19:39
jelknerwhat i mean is, the site should be such that later when we no longer need / want IE support, we can just remove the js and things will work nicely19:40
jelknerso here is my question for you, replaceafill:19:40
replaceafillmr_german, zOnny, check https://github.com/FremyCompany/css-grid-polyfill19:41
replaceafill(it's not the only polyfill for that btw)19:41
jelknergiven that understanding this is probably important for our young developers, but weighing the limits of our resources19:41
jelknerhow much time should mr_german spend trying to get this to work?19:41
replaceafillwhat version of IE should be the target?19:42
jelkneri think IE819:42
replaceafillok19:42
replaceafillmr_german, do you have access to IE8, IE9 and Edge?19:42
jelknerncerna, have you had a chance to look at the website?19:42
* jelkner had to create a vm with windows 7 today so he could get that screenshot :-(19:43
replaceafillfor reference this exists: https://developer.microsoft.com/en-us/microsoft-edge/tools/vms/19:43
replaceafillit's not full windows, but allow you to test19:44
mr_germanreplaceafill, just Edge19:44
replaceafillmr_german, so that should be step 1: try to get the IE vms to work19:44
replaceafillotherwise you won't be able to see anything19:44
jelknerncerna, are you here?19:44
nrcernaOk ill do it now jelkner 19:44
jelknernea4or.us19:45
jelkneri had to ask mr_german to shrink your logo, to the point where its a bit hard to read19:45
replaceafilljelkner, i'd start by testing the site with a polyfill19:45
nrcernaK, is open now jelkner 19:46
jelknerhe didn't want to do it, but i forced him ;-)19:46
mr_germanlol19:46
jelkneri'm wondering if you can do something to keep the size but improve the readability?19:46
replaceafilldid you guys tried the svg version of the logo?19:46
nrcernalol 19:46
replaceafillwasn't that the point of requesting svg?19:47
jelknerperhaps a wee bit larger "Members for" with more black border?19:47
jelkneryes, replaceafill19:47
replaceafillwhy not use svg in supported browsers?19:47
jelknerbut i don't think that will solve the problem here19:47
replaceafillhhhmm ok19:47
jelknerwe should, but we still have some design issues that won't go away19:47
jelkner"Members for" is too small and light at this resolution19:48
jelknersvg won't fix that19:48
jelkner"Revolution" should also stand out a bit more19:48
jelknerwith a thicker border19:48
jelkneri think19:48
replaceafillso now that you have a working website nrcerna should adjust accordingly19:48
replaceafillwith mr_german's help ofc19:49
nrcernax219:49
jelknerprecisely!19:49
mr_germanx2?19:49
replaceafillnrcerna, mr_german can you take care of that?19:49
jelkner"NEA" and "Our" look great19:49
nrcernayes19:49
jelknerthanks19:49
jelknerreplaceafill, how are we doing on funds?19:49
replaceafilljelkner, low19:49
replaceafilljelkner, i was going to send an email about that19:50
replaceafillafter the meeting19:50
jelknerOK, i'm waiting for a loan to clear19:50
replaceafilljelkner, ok19:50
nrcernamay i use "members for" on  black ?19:50
jelknershould be tomorrow or thursday19:50
replaceafilljelkner, thanks19:50
jelknerncerna, you're the artist19:50
jelknerwe don't want to restrict your freedom too much19:50
jelknerso have at it19:50
jelkneri'll tell you if i like it19:50
replaceafillnrcerna, the only constraint here is size/ratio19:51
replaceafillof the logo on desktop19:51
replaceafillon mobile the logo displays fully19:51
replaceafillso jelkner i think we could use modernizr to do what you want19:52
mr_germanreplaceafill, I'm downloading IE8 vm right now19:52
replaceafilli don't think we won't get it so clean at the beginning19:52
replaceafillbut we can iterate19:52
replaceafilluntil it's unpluggable19:53
mr_germanreplaceafill, and then what's next?19:53
jelknernice, z0nny!19:53
replaceafillmr_german, try to use any grid polyfill19:53
replaceafillto see how that looks19:53
replaceafillWITHOUT CHANGING ANY EXISTING CODE19:54
replaceafillmr_german, just add the polyfill and test in each browser19:54
replaceafillread the docs ofc19:54
jelknerz0nny, i like your choice of shading and colors19:54
jelknerbut now:19:54
jelkner1. make the main area dynamic size, not fixed19:55
replaceafillmr_german, check https://github.com/Modernizr/Modernizr/wiki/HTML5-Cross-Browser-Polyfills19:55
replaceafillthere's a grid section19:55
replaceafillmr_german, use both19:55
jelkner2. check out the font sizes of the headings to that "Jelkner's Weblog" stays inside the nav section19:55
jelknerand "Welcome to Jeffrey Elkner’s Weblog!" fits on one line19:56
jelknergot that, z0nny?19:56
mr_germanreplaceafill, ok19:57
zOnnyI got it19:57
jelknergreat19:57
jelknerso i think that's everything19:57
jelknerenough to keep you all busy for the next week19:57
replaceafilljelkner, so what's the timeline for these changes?19:57
zOnnymodernizr I great tool.19:58
jelknerz0nny, once you get those things done, check in with mr_german to see what he has learned about polyfills19:58
jelknerreplaceafill, the convention begins friday19:58
zOnnyOk jelkner19:58
mr_germanreplaceafill, If I stuck with something I'll send you an email or I'll call you19:58
jelknerit would be soooo nice if it could be ready by then19:58
mr_germanI get*19:58
jelknerbut the logo is more important then the polyfill19:59
jelknersince most folks will not be using IE19:59
replaceafillok19:59
replaceafillmr_german, nrcerna i'll let you coordinate that19:59
replaceafillmr_german, concentrate on that first19:59
nrcernaGot it 19:59
replaceafilltry to have something by thursday19:59
jelknersweet19:59
replaceafillto show jelkner and get feedback before he leaves on friday19:59
mr_germanoka19:59
nrcernak19:59
replaceafillnrcerna, mr_german sounds ok?19:59
replaceafillkk20:00
replaceafillthanks!20:00
jelknerreplaceafill, i'll replenish the bank on thursday and check in with you20:00
replaceafilljelkner, cool20:00
nrcernathaks to you ;)20:00
jelkneralrighty, thanks folks!20:00
replaceafillthanks everybody20:00
jelknerwish me luch at the nea convention.20:00
replaceafillgood luch :P20:00
nrcerna:D20:00
replaceafillhave fun!20:01
mr_german:D?20:01
* jelkner goes to eat20:01
* mr_german peace o/20:01
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