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| replaceafill | hey lelkneralfaro | 09:37 |
|---|---|---|
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| lelkneralfaro | replaceafill, hey | 10:01 |
| replaceafill | hey lelkneralfaro | 10:02 |
| lelkneralfaro | replaceafill, I spoke with Keri at the AEA this morning and she was able to compute the results | 10:02 |
| replaceafill | lelkneralfaro, ah ok | 10:02 |
| lelkneralfaro | replaceafill, and if you are free for a moment now, I'd like to talk to you about the email I forwarded from Mike | 10:03 |
| replaceafill | lelkneralfaro, sure, but can we talk first about Jeff's email | 10:04 |
| replaceafill | lelkneralfaro, do you have voice? | 10:04 |
| lelkneralfaro | replaceafill, sure | 10:04 |
| replaceafill | lelkneralfaro, or sound :) | 10:04 |
| lelkneralfaro | replaceafill, yes | 10:04 |
| replaceafill | lelkneralfaro, can we hangout? | 10:04 |
| lelkneralfaro | replaceafill, yup | 10:04 |
| lelkneralfaro | replaceafill, I'm ready when you are | 10:05 |
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| jelkner | Great, replaceafill and lelkneralfaro, just the folks I wanted to talk to. | 11:26 |
| jelkner | How should we do the postmortem on our first online election. | 11:27 |
| jelkner | In addition to the low participation rate and the snafu displaying the results, half the ballot was missing. | 11:28 |
| jelkner | The NEA delegates section. | 11:28 |
| jelkner | So even the 7 who voted didn't get to vote for that. | 11:28 |
| jelkner | I think we need to setup a way to really test this system on our own. | 11:29 |
| jelkner | That's why I was arguing for our own instance. | 11:29 |
| jelkner | But I'm open to any solution you two want to pursue. | 11:30 |
| jelkner | Provided it works better next time than it did this time. | 11:30 |
| replaceafill | hey jelkner | 11:31 |
| replaceafill | lelkneralfaro, and i just met to discuss this among other things | 11:32 |
| replaceafill | jelkner, we do have our testing instance https://docs.google.com/document/d/1CZ2_vzOvWHNf_LowaSHBG6IpsXD0jpLj10azL5X449Y/edit | 11:33 |
| replaceafill | jelkner, a big part of the problem was miscommunication between us and us with AEA and AEA with us (if that makes sense) | 11:34 |
| lelkneralfaro | jelkner, I don't think this was a technical problem. It was a customer service issue. I reached out to Keri asking her | 11:34 |
| lelkneralfaro | replaceafill, is jelkner here? | 11:35 |
| lelkneralfaro | replaceafill, nvm now I see his name | 11:35 |
| replaceafill | lelkneralfaro, yes | 11:35 |
| lelkneralfaro | jelkner, replaceafill I reached out to Keri before the election offering support | 11:36 |
| jelkner | Yes, I understand, and she didn't think it was needed. | 11:36 |
| lelkneralfaro | jelkner, exactly | 11:36 |
| jelkner | But that's our job to understand, not hers. | 11:36 |
| jelkner | What happened with the ballot? | 11:37 |
| jelkner | Half was missing. | 11:37 |
| lelkneralfaro | jelkner, yes it would have helped if we were checking in | 11:37 |
| lelkneralfaro | jelkner, I don't know I wasn't paying attention | 11:37 |
| jelkner | I dropped the ball not doing more one-on-one with folks here at ACC asking them if they voted. | 11:37 |
| jelkner | lelkneralfaro, we need to figure that out. | 11:38 |
| lelkneralfaro | jelkner, it seems to me that all the questions weren't entered | 11:38 |
| jelkner | It was a huge error. | 11:38 |
| jelkner | Elections are prickly things. | 11:38 |
| jelkner | Small mistakes have large consequences. | 11:38 |
| jelkner | And this was a big mistake. | 11:38 |
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| jelkner | mjsir911, are you home sick? | 11:38 |
| mjsir911 | yep, what's the assignment in the CSC class today? | 11:39 |
| jelkner | only cash is here | 11:39 |
| lelkneralfaro | jelkner, I see that there are 5 questions. President, Vice President, Middle School Rep, Elem Rep and ESP REp | 11:39 |
| lelkneralfaro | jelkner, did all 5 of those appear? | 11:39 |
| jelkner | lelkneralfaro, there is another page | 11:39 |
| jelkner | backside, i think | 11:39 |
| replaceafill | lelkneralfaro, i can see votes data for all of them | 11:40 |
| jelkner | with choose up to 11 delegates for NEA. | 11:40 |
| lelkneralfaro | jelkner, not on the admin page | 11:40 |
| replaceafill | jelkner, are you talking about a paper ballot? | 11:40 |
| lelkneralfaro | jelkner, I'm looking at it right here and they weren't added online | 11:40 |
| jelkner | replaceafill, can you send me what you had? | 11:49 |
| jelkner | i need to go back to keri to figure out what went wrong. | 11:49 |
| replaceafill | jelkner, what i had? | 11:49 |
| jelkner | yes, there was a two-sided paper ballot | 11:49 |
| lelkneralfaro | jelkner, keri entered the ballot | 11:50 |
| jelkner | oh | 11:50 |
| jelkner | so lelkneralfaro should gently figure out with her if she was the one who didn't enter the questions | 11:50 |
| replaceafill | :) | 11:50 |
| replaceafill | jelkner, nice way of putting it ;) | 11:51 |
| lelkneralfaro | jelkner, how could it be anyway else? | 11:51 |
| lelkneralfaro | jelkner, you mean did she enter them and somehow they were dropped on the server side of things? | 11:51 |
| jelkner | mjsir911, can you gchat with cash? | 11:55 |
| mjsir911 | sure | 11:55 |
| jelkner | so you can work out together how to light up 12 individual pins | 11:55 |
| jelkner | and he can research that | 11:55 |
| jelkner | today | 11:55 |
| jelkner | lol, replaceafill, of course | 11:56 |
| jelkner | btw. they are such great folks to work with | 11:56 |
| jelkner | ingrid never stops singing our praise | 11:57 |
| jelkner | she told me yesterday to thank everyone for the fantastic job they were doing on the website | 11:57 |
| jelkner | ingrid is also running for VEA state board this year | 11:57 |
| lelkneralfaro | jelkner, did you see my question? | 11:58 |
| jelkner | no, lelkneralfaro, i am assuming she didn't enter them | 11:58 |
| jelkner | replaceafill can address that better than me | 11:58 |
| jelkner | but i don't think the server would drop a question | 11:59 |
| replaceafill | jelkner, i had no idea that something was missing from the ballot, i can dig the logs to look for something | 11:59 |
| jelkner | what we need, in any case, is a way for us to view the ballot with them (sitting side-by-side together and comparing to the paper ballot). | 11:59 |
| jelkner | and verify it's accuracy *before* the election. | 12:00 |
| jelkner | not just something, but what turned out to be something huge | 12:00 |
| jelkner | for reasons i won't bother you with | 12:00 |
| jelkner | but there were 14 candidates for 11 slots for NEA | 12:01 |
| jelkner | and we ended up caring most about that | 12:01 |
| lelkneralfaro | jelkner, that's simple and I showed them how to do that. I can simply log in to the admin page and double check that they have set things up correctly | 12:01 |
| jelkner | since most positions on the front were uncontested. | 12:01 |
| jelkner | but we really shouldn't have left it up to them, lelkneralfaro. | 12:01 |
| jelkner | they don't know. | 12:01 |
| jelkner | that's the big lesson for us here. | 12:02 |
| replaceafill | jelkner, i'm curious about something that you may help us with | 12:02 |
| jelkner | to be effective, we need to be the ones to make sure everything is working. | 12:02 |
| jelkner | shoot, replaceafill | 12:02 |
| replaceafill | jelkner, can you find out if teachers *at least* got/saw the voting email | 12:03 |
| replaceafill | jelkner, it wasn't much a system problem | 12:03 |
| lelkneralfaro | jelkner, not a system problem at all, except the server thing at the end | 12:03 |
| replaceafill | jelkner, the logs show a really low user rate | 12:03 |
| jelkner | so i don't think we can resolve that now | 12:03 |
| jelkner | but here is how we can go forward: | 12:04 |
| jelkner | 1. I will ask pat and my colleagues here if they will indulge us in a few more "low stakes" elections. | 12:04 |
| jelkner | We can start with one called "Vote how to conduct AEA elections" | 12:05 |
| jelkner | with two choices: | 12:05 |
| jelkner | A. Vote online. | 12:05 |
| jelkner | B. Use Paper ballot. | 12:05 |
| jelkner | I will then circulate among all 51 members and see if I can get them to participate. | 12:06 |
| jelkner | We should do that soon. | 12:06 |
| lelkneralfaro | jelkner, and if they choose B? | 12:06 |
| lelkneralfaro | jelkner, as a majority | 12:06 |
| jelkner | It's their union. | 12:06 |
| jelkner | The leadership should drop the desire to do online elections, at least for now. | 12:07 |
| lelkneralfaro | jelkner, or push for it saying that it saves them resources | 12:07 |
| jelkner | +1 | 12:07 |
| jelkner | I'll design the ballot | 12:07 |
| jelkner | and try to weight the scales with something like that. | 12:07 |
| jelkner | Cost of running paper election. | 12:08 |
| jelkner | Cost of running online election. | 12:08 |
| jelkner | But I have another question for you. | 12:08 |
| jelkner | How hard would it be to get the tendenci groups setup? | 12:09 |
| replaceafill | jelkner, groups? | 12:09 |
| jelkner | I would really like to get the story working where we have: | 12:09 |
| jelkner | 1. A mailing list for ACC | 12:09 |
| jelkner | 2. The ability to vote without copying and pasting. | 12:09 |
| jelkner | So the 51 ACC members would be the first Users in the system. | 12:10 |
| replaceafill | jelkner, but this is still using the AEA server, right? | 12:11 |
| jelkner | i don't know, that's your department ;-) | 12:11 |
| replaceafill | jelkner, no i mean | 12:11 |
| replaceafill | jelkner, regarding who controls data? | 12:11 |
| jelkner | ?? | 12:11 |
| replaceafill | jelkner, should this be a "just ACC" service or part of our deal with AEA | 12:12 |
| jelkner | Do you mean who enters the users. | 12:12 |
| replaceafill | jelkner, yes | 12:12 |
| jelkner | OH, AEA | 12:12 |
| jelkner | The only thing ACC has to do with it is that I work in that building | 12:12 |
| jelkner | and can visit individual users | 12:12 |
| jelkner | while we test this | 12:12 |
| jelkner | the goal will be to have 1800 users | 12:13 |
| replaceafill | jelkner, we don't have a Tendenci theme for AEA yet | 12:13 |
| jelkner | who are added to the system originally when they fill out their membership application online and are processed by keri | 12:13 |
| jelkner | so we need to work on that! ;-) | 12:13 |
| replaceafill | jelkner, indeed | 12:14 |
| replaceafill | jelkner, we should ask zOnny if he can handle it | 12:14 |
| replaceafill | jelkner, i think he can | 12:14 |
| jelkner | lelkneralfaro, i wonder if you could request a meeting with ingrid and keri for march 19 or 20 at around 4 pm? | 12:15 |
| jelkner | i could join you there | 12:15 |
| jelkner | and we could talk about what we are thinking of doing next | 12:15 |
| jelkner | lelkneralfaro, you would call keri to set that up | 12:16 |
| lelkneralfaro | jelkner, yeah I can do that. | 12:16 |
| jelkner | i only picked those days because i don't have anything scheduled there yet | 12:16 |
| jelkner | if ingrid is busy, we would have to do it after spring break (the following week), unless they are in the office during spring break | 12:16 |
| jelkner | i'm around all that week, so i could meet then as well. | 12:17 |
| jelkner | let me know what she say, lelkneralfaro | 12:17 |
| lelkneralfaro | jelkner, will do | 12:17 |
| jelkner | cool, i think that's all for now | 12:17 |
| jelkner | mjsir911, one quick question | 12:20 |
| mjsir911 | yes? | 12:20 |
| jelkner | catherine looked a bit nervous when i told her you were out sick today | 12:20 |
| jelkner | do you think you'll be well enough tomorrow to make the event she has planned for you? | 12:21 |
| mjsir911 | yea I think I'll be fully functional tomorrow | 12:21 |
| jelkner | sweet | 12:21 |
| mjsir911 | part of the reason I stayed in today is to recover faster | 12:21 |
| jelkner | i will tell her that | 12:21 |
| jelkner | cool | 12:21 |
| jelkner | good idea | 12:21 |
| mjsir911 | yep | 12:21 |
| lelkneralfaro | replace | 12:28 |
| lelkneralfaro | replaceafill, quick questin | 12:28 |
| lelkneralfaro | replaceafill, *question | 12:28 |
| replaceafill | lelkneralfaro, yes? | 12:28 |
| lelkneralfaro | replaceafill, Add a blue button to the homepage that says ‘Check Into an Event’ | 12:28 |
| lelkneralfaro | replaceafill, how long would it take to have this developed | 12:29 |
| lelkneralfaro | replaceafill, I'm writing the email to Mike and I'll say that we suggest against this functionality | 12:29 |
| lelkneralfaro | replaceafill, but if they do in fact want it I want to let them know how long it would take | 12:30 |
| lelkneralfaro | replaceafill, and again I'm thinking of length of development from customers viewpoint, as in how many days it would take for it to be ready | 12:30 |
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| jelkner | hmmm, replaceafill, i'm not so sure "recommeding against this functionality" is the best way to phrase that | 12:31 |
| jelkner | perhaps, "we hear you and understand what you want, and would like to suggest a different approach" | 12:32 |
| lelkneralfaro | jelkner, well if you want to be excessively nice... | 12:32 |
| lelkneralfaro | jelkner, lol | 12:32 |
| jelkner | this is actually really important | 12:32 |
| lelkneralfaro | jelkner, yeah, I'll find a better phrasing | 12:32 |
| jelkner | if you start saying, "we want you to be active participants in this process" | 12:32 |
| lelkneralfaro | jelkner, and I'll forward you the draft | 12:33 |
| lelkneralfaro | jelkner, of the email | 12:33 |
| jelkner | and then in practice say, when you ask for something, we are going to tell you "No" | 12:33 |
| jelkner | people will *quickly* stop participating | 12:33 |
| lelkneralfaro | jelkner, well we're going to have 3 yeses and 1 no | 12:33 |
| jelkner | ok, cool | 12:34 |
| lelkneralfaro | jelkner, we're just suggesting it's not the best use of their time | 12:34 |
| jelkner | got it | 12:34 |
| jelkner | ok, i'll stay out of this | 12:34 |
| jelkner | sorry | 12:34 |
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| replaceafill | eeeh!!! i'm back | 12:35 |
| lelkneralfaro | jelkner, that's okay, I'll forward you the draft, take a look if you have the time. | 12:36 |
| lelkneralfaro | replaceafill, you were missed, it was a tense 5 minutes here without you | 12:36 |
| replaceafill | ¬¬ | 12:36 |
| lelkneralfaro | replaceafill, :) | 12:36 |
| replaceafill | lelkneralfaro, just replied to your support@ email question | 12:44 |
| lelkneralfaro | replaceafill, another question, just to make sure | 12:45 |
| replaceafill | lelkneralfaro, let me know if i missed something | 12:45 |
| replaceafill | lelkneralfaro, yes? | 12:45 |
| lelkneralfaro | replaceafill, the RSVP by *itself* is an easy functionality correct, it was the other parts (Speakers, documents) that made that functionality more complex? | 12:45 |
| replaceafill | lelkneralfaro, correct | 12:46 |
| lelkneralfaro | replaceafill, cool. thanks | 12:46 |
| replaceafill | lelkneralfaro, the only part missing from pure RSVP is theming | 12:46 |
| replaceafill | lelkneralfaro, but the other two bullet points are customizations | 12:46 |
| lelkneralfaro | replaceafill, cool. and I'll take a look at your response after writing this draft | 12:47 |
| replaceafill | lelkneralfaro, thanks | 12:47 |
| jelkner | replaceafill, should i add your yahoo email address to the mailing list? | 12:48 |
| jelkner | i just received an email that a message arrived needing approval | 12:49 |
| jelkner | since i add each of us using our novawebdevelopment.org emails | 12:49 |
| replaceafill | jelkner, oh crap | 12:49 |
| replaceafill | jelkner, i didn't noticed | 12:49 |
| replaceafill | jelkner, can you let it pass just this time? | 12:49 |
| jelkner | sure | 12:49 |
| replaceafill | jelkner, i'll pay attention from now on, sorry | 12:49 |
| jelkner | np, done. | 12:50 |
| lelkneralfaro | replaceafill, I make that mistake frequently. and it would be an issue with the support@novawebdevelopment option I think | 12:50 |
| replaceafill | lelkneralfaro, well it's not an issue really | 12:51 |
| replaceafill | lelkneralfaro, the email gets sent out, right? | 12:51 |
| replaceafill | lelkneralfaro, you just expose your real address | 12:51 |
| lelkneralfaro | replaceafill, yeah it's not a problem when I am communicating directly from me. But if, for example, I meant to send from support, and instead sent from my personal, then the customer might accidentally start responding to my personal email rather than sending messages to support | 12:52 |
| replaceafill | lelkneralfaro, i think we view support@ differently, i don't see it as a "masking" address | 12:53 |
| replaceafill | lelkneralfaro, to hide ourselves | 12:53 |
| replaceafill | lelkneralfaro, i just see it as an alias to get someone in a good position to respond to have that opportunity | 12:53 |
| replaceafill | lelkneralfaro, the conversation can be continued from our personal @novawebdevelopment.org addresses | 12:54 |
| jelkner | these workflow questions are really important | 12:54 |
| replaceafill | lelkneralfaro, it's not a mailing list | 12:54 |
| lelkneralfaro | replaceafill, ahh I see, that makes sense | 12:54 |
| lelkneralfaro | replaceafill, I just saw your email | 12:54 |
| jelkner | it's like trying to write an operating system | 12:54 |
| jelkner | and trying to avoid the common blocking problems that have serious repercussions: | 12:55 |
| jelkner | 1. Everyone receives a message and thinks someone else will handle it, so no one does anything to respond. | 12:55 |
| jelkner | 2. Several people begin responding in different ways, unaware of what the others are doing. | 12:56 |
| replaceafill | jelkner, that's why i wrote: "We decide who is in better position to take the request" | 12:57 |
| replaceafill | jelkner, in my opinion we still need to communicate internally to some degree | 12:57 |
| jelkner | we do | 12:57 |
| replaceafill | jelkner, and if someone volunteers to reply, they need to take into account the others should know, CC'ing support@ | 12:58 |
| jelkner | but internal communications grows exponentially as we add people and messages | 12:58 |
| jelkner | we are very small scale now, so we can deal with it | 12:58 |
| replaceafill | true | 12:58 |
| jelkner | but a little more growth and it will overwhelm us | 12:58 |
| replaceafill | ACTION calls YAGNI on jelkner :P | 12:59 |
| jelkner | ACTION accepts that criticism (for now ;-) | 12:59 |
| replaceafill | :D | 12:59 |
| replaceafill | the company i worked before even copy pasted some of their communication in the project management tool | 13:02 |
| lelkneralfaro | replaceafill, in response to "the conversation can be continued from our personal @novawebdevelopment.org addresses" | 13:02 |
| replaceafill | so you could have access to emails even if they weren't addressed to you | 13:02 |
| replaceafill | but you needed them at some point | 13:02 |
| lelkneralfaro | replaceafill, isn't that what we are trying to avoid? | 13:02 |
| lelkneralfaro | replaceafill, we want to make sure the customer isn't confused about who to contact | 13:02 |
| replaceafill | lelkneralfaro, i thought what we were trying to avoid is for jelkner to be the only one getting emails about things | 13:03 |
| jelkner | lelkneralfaro, i need to call keri | 13:03 |
| replaceafill | lelkneralfaro, and him having the responsibility of fwd'ing them | 13:03 |
| jelkner | should i ask her about the meeting? | 13:03 |
| lelkneralfaro | jelkner, yes | 13:03 |
| lelkneralfaro | replaceafill, it's not only jelkner in that position though | 13:03 |
| lelkneralfaro | replaceafill, on the Guzman project for example | 13:03 |
| replaceafill | lelkneralfaro, sure, i mean anyone in a "single point of contact" position | 13:04 |
| lelkneralfaro | replaceafill, sometimes requests might go through me. | 13:04 |
| lelkneralfaro | replaceafill, and if German makes a change and then responds to the customer, they might then get confused about who to contact next time | 13:05 |
| replaceafill | lelkneralfaro, but after a task has been assigned to someone, they're usually reponsible for the whole execution | 13:05 |
| replaceafill | lelkneralfaro, they have support@ for next time | 13:05 |
| replaceafill | lelkneralfaro, or if German gets a new email about a new task | 13:05 |
| replaceafill | lelkneralfaro, he can fwd to support and ask? | 13:05 |
| replaceafill | lelkneralfaro, again, i think i misunderstood the us | 13:06 |
| replaceafill | use* | 13:06 |
| replaceafill | lelkneralfaro, an alias won't work for that use case | 13:06 |
| lelkneralfaro | replaceafill, yes and I think I'm complicating it. | 13:06 |
| lelkneralfaro | replaceafill, how about I write up my thoughts more clearly when I get the chance and send them along when I have the chance | 13:07 |
| replaceafill | lelkneralfaro, +1 | 13:07 |
| lelkneralfaro | replaceafill, rather than further complicating things by not communicating clearly | 13:07 |
| lelkneralfaro | replaceafill, cool | 13:07 |
| replaceafill | lelkneralfaro, maybe then we do need the mailing lists :) | 13:07 |
| replaceafill | lelkneralfaro, or a project management system... | 13:08 |
| lelkneralfaro | replaceafill, yes, something of that sort | 13:08 |
| lelkneralfaro | replaceafill, I'll set aside some time to think about the problem and some solutions | 13:09 |
| replaceafill | lelkneralfaro, sure, consider if we could tweak gitlab somehow :) | 13:09 |
| lelkneralfaro | replaceafill, and I'll send it around so that we can all get on the same page | 13:09 |
| replaceafill | lelkneralfaro, +1 | 13:10 |
| lelkneralfaro | ACTION goes to get lunch | 13:28 |
| replaceafill | mr_german, are you around? | 13:45 |
| mr_german | replaceafill, yes | 13:45 |
| mr_german | :) | 13:45 |
| replaceafill | mr_german, have 10 mins to talk? | 13:45 |
| mr_german | yes | 13:45 |
| replaceafill | mr_german, calling... | 13:47 |
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| replaceafill | ACTION goes to pick up his daughter, bb in 1h | 14:02 |
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| replaceafill | ACTION is back | 15:26 |
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