IRC log of #novawebdev for Friday, 2018-07-27

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jelknerreplaceafill, are you here?13:10
replaceafilljelkner, yes13:10
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jelknerwe finish nathan's internship in 50 minutes13:11
jelknercan replaceafill, mjsir911, and nathan use that time to discuss "handing off" his work to mjsir911?13:11
jelknerso that replaceafill is aware of what is going on?13:11
jelkneri don't recall if i wrote issues around this yet13:12
jelkneri can check now13:12
jelknerwe will want to create web apps for our customers so they can get work done easily using their phones13:12
jelknerthe more i watch how folks interact with the web these days, the more clear that is to me13:13
jelkneri've confirmed this with many aea activists13:13
jelknerso, mjsir911, what do we need to make this happen?13:13
mjsir911I think the hardest part is going to be creating a *good* api on whatever backend we are using, which I think is tendenci13:14
jelknerit *is* tendenci, mjsir911 13:15
jelknerand the fact that you say "i think" is why we need this conversation13:15
jelknerreplaceafill, thoughts?13:17
replaceafillhttp://irclogs.novawebdevelopment.org/2018-06-24.log.html#t14:24:3913:17
mjsir911yep, extending tendenci is the biggest part of it13:18
jelknerreplaceafill, is it still true that you don't get "web app"?13:19
jelknerhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Web_application13:19
replaceafilljelkner, no, that part i'm clear now13:19
jelknercool13:19
jelknerso what do we need to get replaceafill and mjsir911 collaborating on this?13:20
mjsir911replaceafill: I would like to work with you when doing this to come up with a reasonable API to send push notifications. You are going to be using much more than I am13:20
jelknerwith mjsir911 on the front end and replaceafill on the backend?13:20
replaceafillmjsir911, could you design such API?13:20
mjsir911I could try, haven't had much experience with doing anything like that for others to use13:21
jelknerare you willing to give it a go, mjsir911?13:21
replaceafillmjsir911, so you're thinking of handling this as a "generic kind of thing"?13:21
mjsir911It will be fairly trivial to set up the front-end to listen to connections from the server for different kind of push notifications, the problem is making good python code to send push notifications13:22
replaceafillmjsir911, could you explain the "push notifications" part, i don't think i get that13:22
replaceafillmjsir911, are we talking rest APIs to begin with?13:23
mjsir911Jeff wants the phone to notify the user with a native notification on *an event*13:23
mjsir911wether it be voting, a meeting, whatever13:23
replaceafillmjsir911, from a technical point of view, what would tendenci need to do?13:24
replaceafillmjsir911, i mean, it'd be something like "send email"13:24
mjsir911I'm not exactly sure the protocol this is being done on above HTTP. Websockets / long-polling / whatever else13:24
mjsir911it would be HTTP13:24
jelkner+113:24
replaceafillmjsir911, sure, but you're not clear on how exactly yet?13:25
mjsir911No all nathan has done has been purely client-side, setting up a timer to send a notification in a minute, etc13:25
jelknerthe web app on their mobile device would receive the information from the web server by connecting with http13:25
mjsir911he doesn't have much backend experience and so I've avoided going down that path with him13:26
replaceafillmjsir911, is this something like socket.io what we need here?13:26
replaceafillmjsir911, that's the closest i've been to that kind of "notification" architecture13:27
mjsir911perhaps, looks similar, although socket.io is probably built on the push notification tech13:27
mjsir911or rather socket.io is the protocol some push notification services might use13:27
mr_germanreplaceafill, I was testing the blog and, it seems to work fine13:28
replaceafillmr_german, cool, let's talk about it later13:28
jelknerhttps://developers.google.com/web/fundamentals/codelabs/push-notifications/13:28
jelknerhttps://www.sitepoint.com/how-to-use-push-notifications-for-web-applications/13:29
replaceafillmjsir911, have you investigated django's side of doing what you need to?13:29
replaceafillmjsir911, i mean, if there are django apps available to do this?13:29
mjsir911I have not, haven't looked much at the backend13:29
mjsir911thats a good idea to do before writing any code13:30
replaceafillmjsir911, +113:30
replaceafillmjsir911, my only issue is that i don't know what to look for :)13:30
replaceafillhttps://channels.readthedocs.io/en/latest/ maybe?13:31
mjsir911some keywords are: `progressive web app`, `push notification`13:31
mjsir911Yeah that will probably be useful13:31
replaceafilli've read some stuff about channels but never used them13:31
mjsir911I haven't spent much time looking into the django side of things, but what I really need from you is making a generic way to do it throughout tendenci13:31
mjsir911or helios13:31
replaceafillmjsir911, have you done this before with any other backend technology?13:33
mjsir911nope13:33
replaceafillok13:33
replaceafillso we're all in uncharted territory it seems :)13:33
mjsir911indeed13:33
replaceafillcool, helps keep expectations low ;)13:34
replaceafilland deal with inestability13:34
mjsir911yeah it will be easier to gauge whats going on once started13:34
jelknerbut this is where we need to go, replaceafill and mjsir911 13:35
jelkneri understand it may take awhile to get there13:35
jelknerbut i'm convinced our success in part depends on it13:35
jelknerso down the rabbit whole we should go13:35
replaceafilljelkner, mjsir911 there's something i don't quite understand13:35
replaceafilljelkner, mjsir911 about the "utility?"/usefulness (whatever is the right word) of the web app13:36
replaceafilljelkner, mjsir911 couldn't the website really do the same?13:36
mjsir911Correct, they are somewhat seperate things13:36
replaceafillmjsir911, could you explain please?13:36
mjsir911notifications would work on a normal website, but notifications being sent while the phone is turned off /  the web page is closed will not work13:36
replaceafillso the weapp is independent in that regard13:37
mjsir911when transitioning to a progressive web app, push notifications would act much more similar to how any other native app would work13:37
mjsir911allowing notifications while the phone is turned off or another app is opened13:37
replaceafillmjsir911, have you heard of the meteor (js) framework?13:38
mjsir911No, but from a quick look looks like react native?13:39
replaceafillmjsir911, yes, kind of13:39
replaceafillsubscriptions to changes13:39
replaceafillthis is really old but relies on django native signals: https://github.com/jazzband/django-ddp#overview-and-getting-started 13:40
replaceafillmjsir911, i wonder if that's similar to the architecture we need for this13:40
mjsir911How is meteor's front end? is there an actual .apk or whatever to put on the phone?13:41
replaceafillmjsir911, it's js single page apps13:41
mjsir911k so just ships in a browser13:41
replaceafillmjsir911, you need the browser13:41
replaceafillmjsir911, yes13:41
mjsir911Yea basically what I'm being asked to do is a very minimal version of what meteor does with the subscriptions for notifications13:42
replaceafillgot it13:42
replaceafillso let me try to sum up our situation (sorry for the ignorance in terms)13:42
replaceafillwe know how to write web apps13:43
replaceafillbut never have done any with backend "subcribe to changes" interaction13:43
replaceafilli think i need to go through this doc jelkner linked: https://developers.google.com/web/fundamentals/codelabs/push-notifications/13:44
mjsir911Yeah, but specifically in regards to 'subscribe to changes' for notifications while the phone is in various states13:44
mjsir911that tutorial is using a google server as the subscription manager I believe13:45
replaceafilljelkner, when do you plan we work on this?13:45
mjsir911(he's currently afk)13:45
replaceafillah ok13:45
jelknerreplaceafill, mjsir911 before getting to a timeline, can i ask a few questions?13:46
jelknerin the first place, there are two stories here13:47
jelknerand we don't need both at once13:47
jelknerthe first story goes like this:13:47
jelkneri have an icon on my mobile device with ora (or novalaciro or aea) on it13:48
jelknerwhen i click on that, it takes me to the appropriate website and logs me in13:48
jelkner....13:48
jelknerthat story doesn't involve any asynchronous stuff13:48
jelknerno push notifications required13:48
jelknerthat would be the "easy" story, yes?13:49
mjsir911yes that would be, that's just progressive web app stuff which is basically a single `manifest.json` file13:49
jelknerso let's do that first13:50
jelknersince that is by far the more important of the two in any case13:50
jelknerweb notifications will be nice13:50
jelknerbut what is a show stopper now is that folks can't easily use our app from their phone13:50
jelknerreplaceafill, sound reasonable?13:51
mjsir911I think the largest part of that would just be teaching replaceafill & co how to do it13:51
mjsir911documenting how to do it13:51
jelknerreplaceafill, are you here?13:51
replaceafillmjsir911, what's required from the backend to do that?13:52
replaceafillmjsir911, in the past when i had this conversation with jelkner, this is what i got in my notes: https://django-sesame.readthedocs.io/en/latest/13:52
mjsir911absolutely nothing, one line in the index.html and a new manifest.json file13:52
jelknersweet!13:52
jelknerso mjsir911 what is your timeline?13:52
jelkneri'm thinking we need to dogfood this first13:52
jelknerso the first web app will be for novawebdevelopment itself13:53
mjsir911Sounds good, I'll try writing up documentation this weekend and send it out to replaceafill sunday?13:53
jelkner+113:53
replaceafillmjsir911, do you have a few links to share now?13:54
replaceafillmjsir911, i mean, tutorial or someone doing the same kind of stuff13:54
replaceafillmjsir911, it's ok if you don't have them at the top of your head, i can wait13:54
jelknercool, let's talk on monday around 12 noon13:54
mjsir911https://developers.google.com/web/fundamentals/web-app-manifest/13:54
jelknergreat13:54
replaceafillmjsir911, thanks13:55
jelknerwe are now taking the interns out for sushi13:55
jelknerthey've done great work this past month13:55
replaceafillcool13:55
replaceafillhave fun13:55
jelknerand we want to celebrate13:55
jelknerthanks13:55
jelknertalk to you on monday replaceafill and mjsir911 13:55
replaceafilllater guys o/13:55
jelknerACTION signs off13:56
mjsir911cya13:56
replaceafillmr_german, still around?13:56
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