IRC log of #novawebdev for Monday, 2018-08-06

*** lelkneralfaro has joined #novawebdev08:13
*** jelkner has joined #novawebdev09:31
jelknerGood morning, lelkneralfaro, that is fantastic news!09:35
jelknerbtw lelkneralfaro did you see my email about tomorrow?09:36
lelkneralfarojelkner, lol good morning09:36
lelkneralfarojelkner, yes i responded already09:36
jelknercool, i haven't gotten to that yet, then09:36
lelkneralfarojelkner, +109:36
jelknerwell, it doesn't have to be tomorrow, but we should work in person one day this week09:37
jelknerbefore i leave for el salvador09:37
jelkneri want to work on:09:37
jelkner1. crowdfunding09:37
jelkner2. the RFP we received recently09:37
jelkner3. PWA09:38
jelkneri was hoping tomorrow since mjsir911 said he could come in then09:38
jelknerso we could talk with him more about PWA and help him test it09:38
jelkneri bet zOnny could join us as well09:39
lelkneralfarojelkner, I've been looking into the RFP this morning. I'm not sure what an in person meeting would do to progress our work on it. Same for the crowdfunding research/planning. The pwa perhaps...09:40
jelknerok, never mind then09:40
jelkneri can handle the PWA on my own with mjsir91109:41
jelknerheylin takes her CIW test on Friday09:41
lelkneralfarojelkner, I'll be plugged in here though for sure. 09:41
jelknershe would like to get together on Friday after that09:41
jelknerso i was going see if other folks could join us then as well09:41
lelkneralfarojelkner, for like a fun thing? yeah that sounds good09:42
jelknerto celebrate09:42
lelkneralfarojelkner, +109:42
lelkneralfarojelkner, yeah I'd love to get together for that Friday would be perfect09:42
jelkneri'll work with mjsir911 and zOnny on the PWA myself09:42
lelkneralfarojelkner, quick question about the AEA09:42
jelkneryou take care of the other items09:43
lelkneralfarojelkner, I know you have told me about this before but I'll make a note of it now so you don't have to repeat yourself09:43
lelkneralfarojelkner, what do they have budgeted for us this year?09:43
lelkneralfarojelkner, I want to reach out to Keri today to check in and ask about invoicing09:43
lelkneralfarojelkner, cool09:44
jelkner+1, lelkneralfaro 09:49
jelkneri'll be contacting her myself about the current vote09:49
lelkneralfarojelkner, in that case want to handle asking the other questions? so as to not bombard her and keep communication simpler?09:50
lelkneralfarojelkner, I just wanted to reach out tell her that we're here if there is any work that our services may be able to help with. and i want to know about how she would like us to invoice this year? on a regular schedule or when work is done. 09:52
jelknerlelkneralfaro, i think you should have that conversation09:56
jelknershe gets phone calls all day09:56
lelkneralfarojelkner, +109:56
jelkner(i just talked to her)09:56
jelknerthe vote is going well09:56
jelknerbut before you do, lelkneralfaro 09:56
jelknerthink about how we want to charge again09:57
jelkneri think you need a conversation with replaceafill09:57
jelknerhere is what i'm thinking09:57
jelkner1. we provide some defined basic service for an annual subscription / support fee09:58
jelkner(perhaps $1K is good, but work out with replacefill what customers get for that)09:58
jelkner2. we seek funding for new features09:58
jelknerideally a group of our customers who share interest in a common feature could chip in together to get us to write it09:59
jelknerthe larger our customer base with common interests becomes, the cheaper it gets for all of them to get what they want09:59
jelkneronce you and replaceafill have that worked out09:59
jelkneryou can i can hit the road reaching out to union locals10:00
jelkneroffering our service10:00
jelknerwith Gallaudet hopefully giving us the breathing space we needed10:00
jelknerwe can use the next two months to start to build our customer base10:01
jelknerbtw. if we are going to look into crowdfunding remotely10:01
jelknerwe will need to have a discussion about how we make our finances transparent10:01
jelknerthat will be an important part of the process10:01
jelknerto be effective, we will need to earn the trust of those whom we ask to support us10:02
jelknerso we need to provide them with details about where their support is going10:02
jelknerone more think, lelkneralfaro, i want to talk to you about the study10:03
jelkneri did the reading already10:03
jelknerand met with ubunturist and talked about it10:03
jelknerwe need to:10:03
jelkner1. break up the first reading assignment into several parts10:03
jelkner2. provide annotated support for struggling readers10:04
jelkneri think we should skip the introduction altogether10:04
jelknerit is tough slogging, and not required10:04
jelknerthen the first chapter should be broken into 3 parts10:04
jelknerthe first part tracing the history of computing and the hacker movement10:04
jelknerthe other two parts having the discussion of hackers and the labor movement10:05
jelkneroh, and i wanted to propose that we invite agaric folks who might be interested to participate with us10:06
lelkneralfarojelkner, sounds good to me. I say take it to the forums. I agree about the support. I have only skimmed the reading. I agree with the Agaric part. Only reason I didn't do it is because the organizing of the project is getting unwieldy10:06
jelkneri can do some pdf editing to break up the document into sections10:06
jelknerlet's keep it simple10:07
jelknerwe need to talk to replacesfill about how to give access to interested folks to our forum10:07
lelkneralfarojelkner, we can create users on our site without the ability to make changes to our site10:07
lelkneralfarojelkner, then they would be able to access our forums10:08
jelknerlet's do that10:08
lelkneralfarojelkner, +110:08
lelkneralfarojelkner, I have other things at the top of my list. I could probably get to that by the end of the day10:08
jelknerwe need to ask folks to approve this10:08
jelknerdon't worry10:09
lelkneralfarojelkner, but no promises. it might wait until tomorrow10:09
jelknerlet me help with that10:09
lelkneralfarojelkner, approve what?10:09
jelknerinviting other folks to the study10:09
lelkneralfarojelkner, +110:09
jelknera great opportunity to test voting! ;-)10:09
lelkneralfarojelkner, also, the bit about separating the readings to discuss10:09
lelkneralfarojelkner, probably a good thing to do with different topics in the forum10:09
jelkneron that score, i don't know that we need to vote10:09
lelkneralfarojelkner, no i didn't mean to suggest voting on that10:10
lelkneralfarojelkner, just unclear communication because of chat10:10
lelkneralfarojelkner, one last thing about the intro10:11
lelkneralfarojelkner, I thought the first 6 pages of the intro were helpful for me. the story about the luddites and the introduction to hacking10:11
jelkneri'll look at them again10:12
lelkneralfarojelkner, afterwards the intro did get to be more academic10:12
jelknerthat's an understatement, my beloved son!10:12
jelkneryou need to develop a sense of how other people are going to experience that kind of thing10:12
lelkneralfarojelkner, lol well that's why I excluded it from the reading10:13
jelknerit was a summary of the argument of the entire text *before* the text10:13
lelkneralfarojelkner, that was the intro in total10:13
lelkneralfarojelkner, I said only the first 5 pages10:13
jelknercomplete with numerous unexplained references, etc.10:13
jelknerthat would surely kill participation10:13
jelkner(it did have footnotes ;-)10:14
jelknerlot's of footnotes10:14
lelkneralfarojelkner, I said only the first five pages plus top of 6 :)10:14
lelkneralfarojelkner, which didn't have any discussion of aesthetic philosophy10:14
jelkneri'll look at that and try to produce small pdfs that have only what we want10:15
lelkneralfarojelkner, although that conversation is an interesting one for another occasion10:15
jelkneri like the book a lot though10:15
lelkneralfarojelkner, yeah looks good10:15
lelkneralfarojelkner, I'll get through it over the course of the week10:15
lelkneralfarojelkner, well the reading that is, not the whole book10:15
jelknerthe whole notion of the importance of play as it relates to alienated labor will be interesting indeed10:16
jelknerok, back to work for me10:16
jelknerlet's touch base with replaceafill when he comes on10:16
lelkneralfarojelkner, +110:16
jelkneri'll be here most of the day10:16
lelkneralfarojelkner, actually before you go10:16
jelknerbut your mother is picking me up for lunch10:16
lelkneralfarojelkner, what was Kevin saying?10:16
jelknerabout what?10:17
lelkneralfarojelkner, about the study10:17
jelkneroh, that for him, "Ours to Hack and to Own" is too tough for him to read10:17
jelknerhe is giving up after a 2nd attempt10:17
jelknerand that is a *much* easier read that this book is10:17
lelkneralfarojelkner, fair enough10:18
lelkneralfarojelkner, yes I know that people will need guidance10:18
lelkneralfarojelkner, I think it's accessible with help10:18
lelkneralfarojelkner, it's just the learning curve with all the references10:18
jelkneri told him it should be our (you, me, and other interested facilitators) to provide context, structure, guidance, and support10:18
lelkneralfarojelkner, okay cool, back to filing issues with Tendenci10:19
*** replaceafill has joined #novawebdev10:33
jelknerreplaceafill, good morning!10:38
replaceafillgood morning jelkner10:38
replaceafilljelkner, i'm waiting for you here:
*** zOnny has joined #novawebdev10:39
jelknerGood morning, zOnny!10:42
zOnnyjelkner: Good morning10:43
jelknerDo you want to meet tomorrow at the central library at 10 am?10:43
jelkneri just talked to mjsir911, he can't meet up until 1 pm10:43
jelknerbut i could do 10 am.10:43
jelknerwell, zOnny, yes or no?10:44
zOnnyjelkner: yes10:44
jelkneri'll see you tomorrow at 10 am at the central library10:44
jelknerwe got some good news this morning, btw10:45
jelknerit appears our gallaudet gig is going forward10:45
jelknerthat was great hope to carry us through the next two months10:45
jelknerso it looks like we have a renewed lease on life10:45
jelknerduring that time we need to market our product heavily10:46
jelknerok, i'm going back to work zOnny, see you tomorrow morning10:46
zOnnyjelkner: see u10:46
zOnnyjelkner: good news10:47
zOnnyjelkner: thanks10:47
jelknerreplaceafill, we have a logistical issue10:47
jelknermy wife is upset with me10:47
jelkneri sent her the flight information yesterday10:48
jelknermy flight arrives in el salvador at 7:07 pm10:49
jelknerreplaceafill, are you here?10:50
replaceafilljelkner, yes10:50
jelknerso she says it will be dark when i get out of the airport, and too dangerous to travel10:50
replaceafilljelkner, to travel to San * Tepezontes?10:50
jelknerthat's what she said10:51
jelknerACTION asked her why the let flights land at a time when the changes that the passengers will get killed is so high :-(10:51
replaceafilljelkner, because airlines don't give a ...10:52
jelkneranyway, i can't change it now10:52
jelknerso i need to figure out what to do10:52
jelknershe was too mad to think clearly yesterday10:52
jelkneri'm waiting to see what she says today10:52
jelknerin any event, time to start planning seriously10:53
jelknerroxana's brother is going to get me a rental car10:53
jelknerat first he said they would pick me up and drop me off10:53
jelknerbut when she found out the time i arrive, she said that won't work10:53
jelkneri wonder if there is a hotel near the airport where i can crash the first night?10:54
jelknerand then get picked up by the rental car company early the next morning10:54
replaceafilljelkner, picking you up is not a problem for us10:54
replaceafilljelkner, i can't offer you a place to stay unfortunately10:55
jelkneri understand10:55
jelkneri'll stay in a hotel for one night10:55
replaceafilljelkner, thinking...10:56
jelknerlet me check with roxana whether that makes more sense to stay near the airport10:56
jelknerit will depend on the car rental people10:57
replaceafilljelkner, ok10:57
jelknerif they are near the airport, i should stay near them10:57
jelkneri'll handle it10:57
jelkneri just googled and found Hotel Rancho Argueta for $35 per night10:57
jelknervery near the airport10:57
jelkneranyway, i'll let you know more tomorrow10:58
replaceafilljelkner, regarding work10:58
replaceafilljelkner, when would you like to start meeting when you're here?10:58
jelknersunday morning?11:00
replaceafilljelkner, cool11:00
jelknerbtw, my friend from San Miguel is coming to visit his mother on monday11:01
jelkneri told him it would be much easier for me to see him there instead of traveling to san miguel11:01
jelkneri'll keep you posted11:01
jelkner(his mother is in San Salvador)11:01
replaceafilljelkner, ah cool11:02
jelknercan mr_german arrive on sunday?11:02
replaceafilljelkner, i think so11:02
jelkneri'll have the car and we can go to san juan that evening11:03
replaceafilljelkner, tell mrs. alfaro about this:
replaceafilljelkner, this is very near us11:03
replaceafilljelkner, and it's not expensive11:03
replaceafilljelkner, it's not as bad11:03
jelknerthat would be best11:03
jelknerif we can work out getting the car sunday morning11:04
jelkneror perhaps saturday evening11:04
replaceafilljelkner, but you need to check with Roxana's family, right?11:04
replaceafilljelkner, about the car11:04
replaceafilljelkner, ok11:04
jelknerher brother11:04
jelknerso let's talk more tomorrow11:04
replaceafilljelkner, cool11:05
replaceafilljelkner, we can pick you up remember11:05
replaceafilljelkner, i don't offer you to take you directly to San * Tepezontes11:05
replaceafilljelkner, because we don't know either11:05
jelkneryes, my friend, i won't forget that! ;-)11:05
jelkneri understand11:05
jelknerbtw, replaceafill yesterday was a good day11:05
jelknerboth the NOVALACIRO cookout and the NEA4OR meeting went very well11:06
replaceafilljelkner, great11:06
jelknerwe will have *a lot* to talk about next week11:06
replaceafilljelkner, speaking of nea4or, could you follow up here:
jelkneri'm really eager to get there11:06
replaceafilljelkner, indeed!11:06
lelkneralfaroreplaceafill, have a moment?11:08
replaceafilllelkneralfaro, sure11:08
jelknerreplaceafill, let me respond to that next week11:08
replaceafilljelkner, ah ok,, cool11:08
jelkneri want to talk to you about the process before writing an email11:08
replaceafilljelkner, sure11:08
jelknerit will be easier to do while i'm there11:09
lelkneralfaroreplaceafill, I'm investigating the self-add self-remove issue (and unfortunately spending more time on it than I anticipated) and I have a quick question11:09
lelkneralfaroreplaceafill, after changing the group settings should the system automatically be updated? or would it take a moment?11:09
replaceafilllelkneralfaro, it should be automatic11:09
replaceafilllelkneralfaro, drop that one11:09
replaceafilllelkneralfaro, it's an easy fix11:09
replaceafilllelkneralfaro, sorry about wasting your time11:10
replaceafilllelkneralfaro, i just want us to raise our profile as an organization with them11:10
lelkneralfaroreplaceafill, no worries. I'm finding there is some other stuff going on with the self add/remove though11:10
replaceafilllelkneralfaro, ah11:10
replaceafilllelkneralfaro, that's good then :)11:10
jelknerreplaceafill, lelkneralfaro can i ask you both a favor?11:11
lelkneralfarojelkner, shoot11:11
jelknerreplaceafill, lelkneralfaro and i were talking about aea a bit earlier this morning11:11
jelknerthey have $1K budgeted for website this year11:12
replaceafilljelkner, yes, i saw the logs11:12
jelknerwe need to come up with a "product" at around that price we can offer them11:12
jelknerso lelkneralfaro can draw up a contract for service for 1 year at that price11:12
replaceafilljelkner, +111:12
jelknerthen he and i can start taking that offering out far and wide to other union locals11:13
jelknerso can lelkneralfaro and replaceafill please work together to develop "the product"?11:13
replaceafilljelkner, makes sense11:14
jelknerand what i mean by that is just to write up what the current set of features is we offer together with hosting at that price11:14
replaceafilljelkner, one question11:14
jelkner$1K is not much, i understand11:14
lelkneralfarojelkner, yeah I've done that before. I'll have to dig it up and make it presentable11:14
replaceafilljelkner, would it be ok to drop mailing lists from the offering?11:14
jelkneryou're the boss, replaceafill 11:15
replaceafilljelkner, managing email servers takes a long time11:15
jelkneronly offer what you think we can effectively deliver11:15
replaceafilli kind of remember proposing it to lelkneralfaro11:15
replaceafillbut we never agreed on anything about it11:15
jelknerthen i'm thinking two things going forward11:15
replaceafilljelkner, +111:15
lelkneralfaroreplaceafill, jelkner okay I'll drop that from any services we offer11:16
jelkner1. we do some crowdfunding with the pitch that folks are helping contribute to the labor movement, since they will be funding new features that everyone gets11:16
jelkner2. as our user base grows11:16
jelknerwe look to find ways for them to collaboratively fund similar enhancements11:16
jelknerthat might just mean having state and national labor do that11:17
jelknerwith enough locals, we can build a reputation that would make that possible11:17
jelknerif that happens, we will be set11:18
lelkneralfarojelkner, +111:18
replaceafilllet's do it :)11:18
jelknerbtw. email *just* arrived from UE organizer Jonathan Kissam11:18
jelknerthey don't think they are a good fit for us11:19
jelknerthey don't have the capacity to support small shops where they are not currently organizing11:19
jelknerso, let me explore iww 560 more11:19
lelkneralfarojelkner, `cool thanks for the update11:19
lelkneralfaroreplaceafill, can I touch base with you about this group self/add remove issue once more?11:20
replaceafilllelkneralfaro, sure11:20
replaceafilllelkneralfaro, all i was trying to say is that when Kevin reported the issue, i found the cause11:21
replaceafilllelkneralfaro, but i didn't manage to create a Pull Request (PR) for it11:21
lelkneralfaroreplaceafill, I'm confused about the issue a bit. is the issue that even though a setting is selected allowing/not allowing self add/remove, a superuser can self add/remove anyway?11:22
replaceafilllelkneralfaro, yes, that's part of it11:23
lelkneralfaroreplaceafill, or is the issue that in the side bar pressing the "users cannot remove themsleves" does not change the setting11:23
replaceafilllelkneralfaro, but the other part is, and the one i asked you to move upstream is the remove link iteself11:23
lelkneralfaroreplaceafill, it looks to me like the side bar is just a link11:23
replaceafilllelkneralfaro, +111:23
lelkneralfaroreplaceafill, to the settings which is misleading11:23
lelkneralfaroreplaceafill, yeah it's not a switch just a link11:24
replaceafilllelkneralfaro, that line should be group.allow_self_remove11:24
replaceafilllelkneralfaro, you can see the if branch after that11:25
replaceafilllelkneralfaro, and infer what's happening when that never becomes "True"11:25
replaceafilllelkneralfaro, no matter what the setting is11:25
lelkneralfaroreplaceafill, ahh I see. so the line is missing the underscore and that is messing things up?11:25
replaceafilllelkneralfaro, correct11:25
lelkneralfaroreplaceafill, I undesrtand11:26
replaceafilllelkneralfaro, in my head, we either report it, and will probably spot it quickly as we did11:27
replaceafilllelkneralfaro, or we submit a PR for it11:27
lelkneralfaroreplaceafill, well the other thing I'm running into, and unfortunately it will take some time to test, is that for a non-superuser, the allow add/remove works weird. it seems like it appears some places and not others. like I can add myself through the top menubar but not remove myself from there. and when i do remove myself I'm still appearing as part of the group in my profile page11:28
lelkneralfaroreplaceafill, I'll just file the issue, instead of bothering you too much here with it, so you can check it out on your own time11:28
replaceafilllelkneralfaro, in the view with the two lists? i think i've noticed that too11:28
replaceafilllelkneralfaro, +111:29
replaceafillok time to plan this week's work :)11:30
replaceafillzOnny, good morning11:30
lelkneralfaroreplaceafill, and in regards to the PR or filing the issue. It's what ever you think best11:30
lelkneralfaroreplaceafill, +111:30
replaceafillunfortunately mr_german is not here yet...11:30
zOnnyreplaceafill: good morning11:31
replaceafillok, let's ask mr_german to read the logs if he's interested at all on this planning thing11:32
replaceafillzOnny, so11:32
replaceafillzOnny, go to the novaweb-ams project11:32
replaceafilllelkneralfaro, your feedback on this is also welcome :)11:33
replaceafillzOnny, and in that project find the Wiki on the left sidebar11:33
replaceafillzOnny, let me know when you're there11:33
zOnnyreplaceafill: on it11:34
replaceafillzOnny, go to the Issues Weight page11:34
replaceafillzOnny, this is a wiki, so you can adjust at will, ok?11:34
replaceafillzOnny, but my idea is this11:34
replaceafillzOnny, we start picking issues with higher weight11:35
replaceafillzOnny, for example, currently there are 4 issues with Weight 911:35
replaceafillzOnny, iirc11:35
replaceafillzOnny, click the Weight 911:35
replaceafillzOnny, you'll see two of them are already assigned to you11:36
replaceafillzOnny, my question is, are you responsible for those tasks?11:36
replaceafillzOnny, or is Marco who's handling that?11:37
zOnnyreplaceafill: ok11:38
zOnnyreplaceafill: I will take those11:39
replaceafillzOnny, cool11:39
replaceafillzOnny, so can you break them?11:39
replaceafillzOnny, as we discussed last week11:39
replaceafillzOnny, break an issue means splitting it into smaller steps/tasks11:39
replaceafillzOnny, and ideally estimating each of those smaller parts11:40
replaceafillzOnny, like "this small part will take 1 hour at most"11:40
replaceafillzOnny, "this other small part will take 0.5 hour"11:40
replaceafillzOnny, and so on11:40
zOnnyreplaceafill: today's target is make the app work offline 11:41
replaceafillzOnny, cool, write that in the description11:41
replaceafillzOnny, this is an example:
replaceafillzOnny, see the "Here's the plan:" part of the description11:41
zOnnyreplaceafill: serviceworker.js will fit good before the notifications11:41
replaceafillzOnny, you don't need to explain it here :)11:42
replaceafillzOnny, use the issue for that11:42
replaceafillzOnny, so we're all aware11:42
zOnnyreplaceafill: what is that ? 11:42
replaceafillzOnny, even people who may need to pick up the issue after you11:42
replaceafillzOnny, ok, starting over... go to:
replaceafillzOnny, jelkner reported that as "Need to track dues payments"11:43
replaceafillzOnny, then i broke it into parts11:43
replaceafillzOnny, that's the plan i wrote in the description11:43
replaceafillzOnny, i've already taken care of some of those parts11:44
replaceafillzOnny, and some are still pending11:44
replaceafillzOnny, that's what we need in your issues too11:44
replaceafillzOnny, clear steps/parts that need to be followed11:44
replaceafillzOnny, if you know you'll need to write a service worker or something11:44
replaceafillzOnny, add that as part of the description:11:45
replaceafill* Add service worker something something11:45
replaceafillzOnny, are you following this?11:48
zOnnyreplaceafill: yes11:49
replaceafillzOnny, great11:49
replaceafillzOnny, let me know when you have them split11:49
lelkneralfaroreplaceafill, thanks for organizing this, the process looks great and I think it will help us out a lot to approach our work this way. 11:52
replaceafilllelkneralfaro, hopefully11:52
lelkneralfaroreplaceafill, +111:53
replaceafillzOnny, are you updating your issues?11:57
zOnnyreplaceafill: yes 12:01
replaceafillzOnny, cool12:04
replaceafillzOnny, you don't need to file new issues12:07
replaceafillzOnny, you can just edit the current issue description12:07
replaceafilljelkner, lelkneralfaro i don't think i'll be good at project managing honestly12:08
replaceafilljelkner, i think we should have lelkneralfaro do it12:08
replaceafilljelkner, i understand you want me on top of things as *lead developer*12:09
replaceafilljelkner, but this is project management what you're talking about12:09
replaceafilljelkner, and my frustration threshold is too low12:09
lelkneralfaroreplaceafill, lol yes I know the feeling. only concern that I have is on the technical side of things, but I guess regular communication with you can help with that12:12
replaceafilllelkneralfaro, when you visited them, did you get a sense on Clayton's role in Agaric?12:12
replaceafilllelkneralfaro, just from lurking their channel, i *think* that's what we need12:12
lelkneralfaroreplaceafill, he wasn't there in person so I couldn't meet with him and see him in action, but I got a sense of him directing things and seeing its effect on the other members in real life12:13
replaceafilllelkneralfaro, and Clayton is not the lead developer12:13
replaceafilllelkneralfaro, right12:13
replaceafilllelkneralfaro, he's good at poking developers on issues that need to get done12:14
replaceafilllelkneralfaro, not sure if poking is the right word there :)12:14
lelkneralfaroreplaceafill, want to discuss this some more at 1? I'm working on something right now that I'd like to finish up12:14
replaceafilllelkneralfaro, and communicating with customers, etc12:14
replaceafilllelkneralfaro, sure12:14
lelkneralfaroreplaceafill, poking is a good word :)12:14
replaceafilllelkneralfaro, ttyl12:14
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jelknerACTION leaves to go with his wife13:09
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lelkneralfaromr_german, hi, just checking in. are you still on track to have Elizabeth's site ready by tonight? I'd like to call her office13:32
lelkneralfaromr_german, to give them an update13:32
lelkneralfarozOnny, you here? quick question i'm looking over your invoice for Paul Flint's site and there is a line that said "splash page design" did you mean "splash"? Sorry I'm not more familiar with the project so I'm just making sure.13:41
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zOnnylelkneralfaro: ?13:51
zOnnylelkneralfaro: can you tell me which number of invoice is it ?13:52
lelkneralfarozOnny, one sec lookingn now13:53
lelkneralfarozOnny, second invoice first line13:54
zOnnylelkneralfaro: correct13:56
lelkneralfarozOnny, +1 thanks13:56
zOnnyit was the one that displays Coming soon13:57
lelkneralfarozOnny, cool :)13:59
zOnnylelkneralfaro: Does the refound option will bring you the money back ?13:59
lelkneralfarozOnny, refund option?14:00
zOnnylelkneralfaro: I am not familiar at all with paypay14:00
lelkneralfarozOnny, are you asking to return money, if so that is not necessary14:00
zOnnylelkneralfaro: ?14:02
lelkneralfarozOnny, what do you mean "refound option"?14:02
zOnnylelkneralfaro: return money 14:03
lelkneralfarozOnny, I'm not familiar with it. but in our case there is no need to return money. unless this is for something else...14:04
zOnnylelkneralfaro: ?14:10
zOnnylelkneralfaro: did you understand Flint's last request ? 14:12
lelkneralfarozOnny, let me look14:13
lelkneralfarozOnny, most likely he is referring to the picture with all of VT. better to have something just of the district he is running for14:15
lelkneralfarozOnny, Kevin has made some suggestions. make sure to include your source if you use one of those pictures14:16
lelkneralfarozOnny, that helpful?14:16
lelkneralfarozOnny, I'm going to step away from the computer for 5 minutes to get a snack brb14:16
zOnnylelkneralfaro: ok14:18
zOnnylelkneralfaro: I sent the section that he maybe is referring to but he responded with14:21
zOnnylelkneralfaro: I just fowarded you14:21
lelkneralfarozOnny, looking now14:21
lelkneralfarozOnny, lol yes his response was not helpful14:23
lelkneralfarozOnny, I'd be confused too14:23
zOnnylelkneralfaro: I will request a screenshoot :(14:24
zOnnylelkneralfaro: unless there is somebody else can figure out what he means14:26
lelkneralfarozOnny, nope, it is unclear what he is talking about. The only think that makes sense is the VT picture. but if you still feel unsure better to communicate with him and get certain. 14:27
zOnnylelkneralfaro: ok14:28
zOnnylelkneralfaro: busy ?14:28
lelkneralfarozOnny, can you give me 5-10 minutes?14:29
zOnnylelkneralfaro: NO!14:29
lelkneralfarozOnny, lol I'll take that as a yes14:29
zOnnylelkneralfaro: sure 14:29
lelkneralfarozOnny, okay ready, what's up?14:33
zOnnylelkneralfaro: is about this issue
lelkneralfarozOnny, alright i'm looking at it now14:35
zOnnylelkneralfaro: about credentials stored is already in use14:36
zOnnylelkneralfaro: if you login in the site as an user and you do not logout your account is still there14:37
zOnnylelkneralfaro: unless he is referring to something else14:38
lelkneralfarozOnny, if that is true then it's not an issue. my dad doesn't have a problem. I'm not sure if he filed the issue because he found out that he had to keep logging in each time. 14:38
lelkneralfarozOnny, could be he filed the issue without testing14:38
zOnnylelkneralfaro: correct14:38
lelkneralfarozOnny, you'll have to double check with him14:39
zOnnylelkneralfaro: you can test it as a admin14:39
zOnnylelkneralfaro: user: admin psswd: admin14:39
lelkneralfarozOnny, yes that is how it works for me on my computers, but I haven't tried on the phone... I'll try now14:40
zOnnylelkneralfaro: progressive web apps are the same as in desktop14:41
zOnnylelkneralfaro: the behavior do not change14:42
lelkneralfarozOnny, yeah I thought that may be the case14:43
lelkneralfarozOnny, so shouldn't be an issue14:43
zOnnylelkneralfaro: I mean the functionallity14:43
lelkneralfarozOnny, +114:43
zOnnylelkneralfaro: what he means ?14:45
lelkneralfarozOnny, looking now, give me a sec to think14:46
lelkneralfarozOnny, I think in the comments section you can write more to be clear about what you are thinking14:48
mr_germanlelkneralfaro, are you here?14:48
mr_germanneed to ask you a quick question14:49
lelkneralfarozOnny, for example, my question here is "is the admin menu not easy enough?" 14:49
zOnnylelkneralfaro: I requested an example14:49
lelkneralfaromr_german, yes one moment let me finish speaking with zOnny 14:49
zOnnylelkneralfaro: good point14:49
lelkneralfarozOnny, so you can write that out in the comments. I'd say something like "is the admin menu not easy enough? if it is not can you please provide an example of what sort navigation you would like to see? an icon on the main page?"14:50
lelkneralfarozOnny, something like that. whatever questions you have. details and full thoughts are good for helping us better understand each other14:51
lelkneralfaromr_german, here, how may I help?14:51
lelkneralfarozOnny, I have a question for you... what is the "doing" label in gitlab, that means you are currently working on it?14:52
mr_germanthe navbar should be first and then the banner of the opposite like the dev-site?14:53
replaceafilllelkneralfaro, it should mean "in progress"14:54
zOnnylelkneralfaro: correct 14:54
replaceafilllelkneralfaro, labels are group controlled14:54
replaceafilllelkneralfaro, so we used the same issue labels in all of our projects14:54
replaceafilllelkneralfaro, feel free to adjust as convenient14:54
lelkneralfaromr_german, yes navbar/menu on top then banner below it14:54
lelkneralfaromr_german, is that what you mean?14:55
mr_germansticky also?14:55
lelkneralfaromr_german, cool yup, thanks for asking14:55
mr_germansticky menu14:55
mr_germanif it is necessary i need to work with that14:55
lelkneralfaromr_german, I think it would be better if it weren't sticky14:56
mr_germanlelkneralfaro, cool14:56
mr_germanthat's all from now14:56
lelkneralfaromr_german, thank you!14:56
lelkneralfaroreplaceafill, zOnny thanks for answering14:57
lelkneralfaromr_german, question for you, still on track to be done by tonight?14:57
lelkneralfaromr_german, cool. I'll call Elizabeth's office and let them know14:57
zOnnylelkneralfaro: these Issues were automatically done once the icon responds in the mobile screen15:01
zOnnyI was focusing my time on progressive apps features15:02
zOnnylelkneralfaro: As offline functionallity15:03
lelkneralfarozOnny, I'm not sure what you mean since I haven't been keeping up with that project too much15:05
lelkneralfarozOnny, what do you mean once the icon responds in the mobile screen?15:05
lelkneralfarozOnny, back to Flint's site, I'm seeing now that all the suggested images by Kevin are of all of VT and not just Barre City. I think the best bet would be to find a map of only his district. if there isn't one available you will probably have to edit an image15:08
zOnnylelkneralfaro: althouth there is one next to his profile picture15:15
zOnnylelkneralfaro: I will look for some  options15:15
zOnnylelkneralfaro: if the VT map doesn't fit there15:16
lelkneralfarozOnny, I see what you mean, yes I see that's a bit awkward to repeat the map. but it's also not good to have the VT map since that's not who he will be representing. I suggest raising your concern with him and then asking for his input before making a change, or make a change and then confirm with him that he approves it afterwards... which ever is easier for you15:18
lelkneralfarozOnny, maybe a picture of some monument or landmark in Barre would be better... just a thought15:20
mr_germanACTION goes to take his lunch15:31
zOnnylelkneralfaro: are wikipedia images copyrighted ?15:33
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jelknerreplaceafill, ping15:46
replaceafilljelkner, pong15:46
jelkneri just sent an email to Anya, cc'ing you and lelkneralfaro 15:47
jelknerthis is what i wanted to happen, we are getting users to try to use our website15:47
jelkneras you can clearly see, they struggle15:47
jelknerour core mission is to reduce the barriers to their being able to use our website as much as possible15:48
jelknerit is that above all else that will determine our success or failure15:48
replaceafilljelkner, we will need a UX specialist for making this easy15:48
replaceafilljelkner, Tendenci is not there15:48
jelknerwell, when we are more successful, my friend15:48
jelknerwe can recruit one15:48
jelknerfor now, we need to make do with the best we can15:49
jelknersince as you know, we do not have extra resources15:49
jelknerwe will have a week to discuss this in el salvador15:49
jelknerfor now, why doesn't anya see a login?15:49
replaceafillok, let's try to figure this out15:51
replaceafillanyone has an iphone here...?15:51
zOnnyreplaceafill: me15:51
replaceafillif not, chrome device emulator will have to do15:51
replaceafillzOnny, could you go to https://aeava.org15:51
replaceafillzOnny, not authenticated15:52
zOnnyreplaceafill: on it15:52
replaceafilljelkner, as far as i understand she's looking at the content on mobile, right?15:52
replaceafilljelkner, that means the navbar is collapsed15:52
replaceafilljelkner, the login link is on the navbar15:52
replaceafilljelkner, so you should direct her there15:53
jelknerthe hamburger?15:53
replaceafilljelkner, yes15:53
replaceafillfwiw this is how it looks in chrome devtools:
replaceafillyou can see the LOGIN link last15:55
jelkneremail sent15:55
jelknerso, replaceafill and lelkneralfaro, you can see how important the undefined "super easy" is going to be15:56
jelknersince it will make or break our pricing15:56
jelknerif we are going to provide a year's support for our basic product, we need to minimize the number of users who will get stuck15:56
jelkneror we will not be able to handle the traffic15:57
jelkneranyway, let's see what she does with my email15:57
jelknerlelkneralfaro, i mentioned to you how important september is going to be for us15:57
jelknerwe need to get aea to make broad use of our platform15:57
jelknerto do that, we will inevitably get lots and lots of user feedback ;-) :-(15:58
replaceafilljelkner, do you have some examples of the super easy navigation you have in mind?16:00
replaceafilljelkner, websites we could compare agains16:00
lelkneralfaroreplaceafill, jelkner yea I just looked at facebook16:01
lelkneralfaroreplaceafill, jelkner they use the hamburger16:01
replaceafilllelkneralfaro, and iirc facebook has m.facebook.com16:01
lelkneralfaroreplaceafill, +116:01
zOnnyjelkner: I can fix it if the login should not be in the hamburger16:02
replaceafillzOnny, are you working on this?16:03
zOnnyreplaceafill: Is that not already in use ? once you login16:04
jelknerzOnny, not so fast16:04
jelknerwe need to "measure twice and cut once", as the carpenter's say16:05
replaceafillzOnny, no idea, you filed it16:05
replaceafillzOnny, i see it has the "Doing" lable16:05
replaceafillzOnny, which means is in progress16:05
replaceafillzOnny, and it doesn't have any weight16:06
jelknerotherwise, zOnny, we will be wasting time and resources, which we don't have16:06
replaceafillzOnny, which means it's "undecided"16:06
zOnnyreplaceafill: I was testing if there was an Issue on it16:06
replaceafillzOnny, could you update it according to your findings?16:06
zOnnyreplaceafill: I will16:06
replaceafillzOnny, if it's not being worked on, remove the label16:06
replaceafillzOnny, if it's not important, set weight to 1 or None16:06
replaceafillzOnny, if it's not needed at all, delete16:07
replaceafilllelkneralfaro, even though we have no idea of User Experience16:09
replaceafilllelkneralfaro, i'd like to request your help with this
replaceafilllelkneralfaro, not now, maybe later this week16:10
lelkneralfaroreplaceafill, cool, want me to assign the issue to myself?16:10
replaceafilllelkneralfaro, well, we'll need to code so no16:11
replaceafilllelkneralfaro, i mean 16:11
replaceafilllelkneralfaro, we can either retitle that section better16:12
replaceafilllelkneralfaro, or redefine the whole view16:12
replaceafilllelkneralfaro, it's kind of weird at the moment16:12
replaceafilllelkneralfaro, if you consider administrative tasks16:12
lelkneralfaroreplaceafill, I see what you mean, yeah thanks for putting it on my radar so I'll be ready for it later on16:14
replaceafilllelkneralfaro, i'm trying to find the conversation i had with Kevin where that came from16:15
replaceafillzOnny, could you follow up here:
zOnnyreplaceafill: ok16:25
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mr_germanACTION is back16:35
mr_germanlelkneralfaro, are you there?16:35
lelkneralfaromr_german, yup I'm here16:35
lelkneralfaromr_german, I'm not here for long. I'm leaving at 5:00 PM. I'll be online later, but I'll be less reliable. it will be out of my "work hours"16:42
mr_germanreplaceafill, i just want to know if the fb and twitter sidebars should be in every page16:44
jelknerreplaceafill, do you know what email addresses we have for novalaciro?16:44
lelkneralfaromr_german, give me a moment to think...16:45
replaceafilljelkner, Daniela's (organizer@) and Diego's (inquiry@)16:45
jelknercool, thnx16:47
lelkneralfaromr_german, I recommend no. I'll double check with them tomorrow, but in my opinion it's not a good idea. 16:48
mr_germanlelkneralfaro, cool, but, if they want the sidebars on every page. It's not a problem to change it fast 16:50
lelkneralfaromr_german, +1 I thought that was probably true.16:51
replaceafillcould someone try in a non-authenticated browser please?17:01
lelkneralfaroreplaceafill, I'd be glad to help if i can. what's a non-authenticated browser?17:04
replaceafilllelkneralfaro, that you're not authenticated in tendenci with your user17:04
replaceafilllelkneralfaro, it's an error in our forums17:05
replaceafilllelkneralfaro, and that forum is public17:05
replaceafilllelkneralfaro, so you could go to
replaceafilllelkneralfaro, this is the error i'm trying to fix:
lelkneralfaroreplaceafill, I'm not seeing a django dump17:06
replaceafilllelkneralfaro, great17:06
replaceafilllelkneralfaro, thanks!17:07
lelkneralfaroreplaceafill, I logged out followed the links and see the forums17:07
lelkneralfaroreplaceafill, +117:07
lelkneralfaroalright I'm out for the evening. see you all later!17:07
zOnnyreplaceafill: not authenticated17:08
replaceafillzOnny, great thanks17:08
replaceafillzOnny, i just asked you to test in your phone17:08
replaceafillzOnny, i remember you reported the issue there?17:08
zOnnyreplaceafill: oh remember17:08
zOnnyreplaceafill: working good17:10
replaceafillzOnny, awesome, thanks for your help17:11
jelknerreplaceafill i just sent another reply to anya17:16
jelkneri'll write back to her again as soon as we figure out what is going on.17:16
replaceafilljelkner, let me see the emails17:18
replaceafilljelkner, that tendenci sent17:18
replaceafilljelkner, i don't understand this part of her email17:19
replaceafill"I gave myself the user name Anyagan"17:20
replaceafilljelkner, her username is her gmail address17:20
jelknerso, replaceafill, as you can see, i'm spending most of my afternoon answering emails from the small group (14 people) we have trying to use the system17:23
jelknerjust imagine what it will be like when we have 50 people, or 1700?17:23
replaceafilljelkner, we don't have a "how to reset your password" help file17:24
replaceafilljelkner, that's problem #117:24
jelknerwell then, we need one!17:24
replaceafilljelkner, file an issue!17:24
jelknerlelkneralfaro should work on this first thing tomorrow17:24
replaceafilljelkner, and please label it as "Documentation"17:24
jelkneri'm going to let lekneralfaro file the issue17:25
replaceafilljelkner, do you want me to?17:25
jelknerit may be best if he did17:25
jelkneri'm not trying to be difficult17:26
jelknerbut starting august 23rd, i'll have a full time (and then some) job again17:26
jelknerif we rely on me to do these things, we are in trouble17:26
replaceafilljelkner, i know17:26
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jelkneri will continue to volunteer on weekends, of course17:26
replaceafilljelkner, but in my opinion you don't solve this with 25 emails either17:27
jelknerbut monday to friday our full time coop members need to be able to handle everything17:27
replaceafilljelkner, you solve this with docs17:27
replaceafilljelkner, and making people to pay attention to their usernames17:27
jelknernot if people don't know where to find the docs17:27
jelknerthat will just change the body of the email17:27
replaceafilljelkner, if we need to make that part of the email body green with blinking fonts we should17:27
jelknerto explain where to find the docs17:27
replaceafilljelkner, but i bet you *some* people will even miss it then17:28
jelknerwhat we need is documentation integrated into the app itself17:28
replaceafilljelkner, we have that!17:28
replaceafilljelkner, well17:28
replaceafilljelkner, not complete documentation17:28
jelkneronly practice will tell us if what we have is good enough17:28
jelknerit isn't now17:28
replaceafilljelkner, +117:28
replaceafilljelkner, and the irony is that you need to be authenticated in order to get to the help menu!17:29
replaceafilljelkner, :/17:29
jelknerzOnny is learning about using javascript to provide help in each of the form fields17:29
jelknerit should be integrated into the form itself17:29
replaceafilljelkner, again, that's Tendenci for us17:29
replaceafilljelkner, the help-files are public though17:30
replaceafilljelkner, so it should be "easy" to make them accessible17:30
jelknerlet's talk more next week17:30
replaceafilljelkner, cool17:30
jelkneragain, i want the suggestion, "your user name is your email address" in the username field17:30
jelknerin light gray17:30
jelknerso that users don't have to navigate away17:31
jelknerusing docs is very challenging on a mobile device17:31
replaceafilljelkner, makes sense17:31
replaceafilljelkner, "I’m good I just voted "17:31
replaceafilljelkner, see?17:31
replaceafilljelkner, that's my point17:31
replaceafilljelkner, it's a users problem most of the times17:31
replaceafilljelkner, sure, we suck17:32
replaceafilljelkner, but sometimes people just don't read the email17:32
replaceafilljelkner, anyway17:32
replaceafilljelkner, and Valerie maybe voted from an iPhone!17:32
replaceafilljelkner, hopefully she was at the drugstore17:32
jelknerif it wasn't for those pesky users life would be so good!17:32
replaceafilljelkner, in line to the cash register17:33
replaceafilljelkner, :P17:33
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jelkneron another topic, replaceafill, roxana completely approves of the "you pick me up at the airport and stay in that nearby hotel plan"17:33
replaceafilljelkner, cool, that's a go then!17:34
jelknershe still needs to get in touch with her brother about how i get the rental car sunday morning17:34
jelknerbut we are looking good17:34
replaceafilljelkner, i was thinking of getting to your room earlier17:34
jelknercan i reserve a room online?17:34
replaceafilljelkner, so we make sure everything is in place17:34
replaceafilljelkner, i was thinking of doing that17:34
replaceafilljelkner, here17:35
jelknerthat would be great!17:35
replaceafilljelkner, i'll take care of it17:35
jelknergfbot__, are you here?17:35
jelknerreplaceafill, i was hoping to talk with mr_german about plans for sunday17:38
jelkneri'll look for him tomorrow17:38
jelkneri'm about to sign off for the day17:39
replaceafilljelkner, cool, i spoke with my sister today17:39
jelkneri have an ora sc meeting17:39
gfbot__jelkner, yes17:39
jelknerbefore i go17:39
jelknercan we use this as a chance to sign-in to a meeting?17:39
replaceafilljelkner, did you set up an event for it?17:39
jelknerACTION can't wait until he can do that easily from his ubuntu phone ;-)17:39
jelkneri'll do that now17:39
replaceafilljelkner, cool17:40
jelkneroh, in this case, replacefill, i would only want ora sc members to be able to see the event17:44
jelkneror mark themselves present17:44
jelknerwe don't support that yet, right?17:44
replaceafilljelkner, that's not possible at the moment17:44
replaceafilljelkner, nope17:44
jelknernever mind then17:45
jelkneri'll try it at tomorrow's meeting17:45
replaceafilljelkner, want me t ofile an issue?17:45
jelknernot yet17:45
replaceafilljelkner, cool17:45
jelkneragain, let's focus on our product at the moment17:45
replaceafilljelkner, ok17:45
jelknerwe need to start filing issues when there is a bit of $$ behind them17:45
jelknerwe are out of freebies for the time being17:45
jelknerwe need to survive17:46
jelknerso this would be a good plug for crowdfunding17:46
replaceafilljelkner, +117:46
jelknerperhaps we can find a way for folks to even fund particular features they want17:46
replaceafilljelkner, hopefully17:46
jelknermr_german, will you be coming on sunday?17:47
mr_germanyes, i do17:47
mr_germani will*17:47
jelkneri'll have the car then, so we can make our way to san juan that evening17:47
mr_germanjelkner, i'm nervous btw17:47
jelknerlooking forward to my visit!17:47
jelknernp, it will be great fun17:47
replaceafillmr_german, why are you nervous?17:48
jelknerhe doesn't need a reason, replaceafill, he just is17:48
replaceafillyou usually have a reason to feel nervous :P17:49
jelknerreally, replaceafill, not in my experience17:49
jelkneri mean not a rational one any way17:49
replaceafilljelkner, kk17:49
replaceafilli'll leave mr_german alone, he's too nervous to answer17:50
jelknernervous == excited, unsure of what to expect, cares seriously and wants things to go well17:50
jelknerit's all good!17:50
mr_germanreplaceafill, no estoy acostumbrado a estar mucho tiempo fuera de mi casa. x)17:51
mr_germannada más es eso17:51
jelknerokie dokie, i need to sign off and get ready for the ora sc meeting17:51
replaceafilllater jelkner o17:51
jelknerhasta tomorrow17:51
replaceafillmr_german, ahora vas a entender lo que es enfocarse solo en el trabajo17:51
replaceafillmr_german, y vas a ver cuanto vas a avanzar17:51
replaceafillmr_german, ojala lo entendas :)17:52
mr_germaneso espero x)17:52
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replaceafillACTION signs off for the day18:40
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