IRC log of #novawebdev for Monday, 2019-07-15

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kgriecohi jelkner 10:07
jelknerGood morning, kgrieco 10:07
jelknerand Sambrem, didn't mean to leave you out! :-)10:08
jelknerno zOnny yet?10:08
SambremHi jelkner!10:08
jelknerkgrieco, Sambrem, i'm in the middle of going through the Django Girls Tutorial10:09
jelknerit is a pretty amazing resource10:10
jelknergreat intro to the whole tech stack for web application development10:10
kgriecooh nie10:11
jelknerso unless you need me for anything, i'll return to my study10:11
SambremSounds good10:11
jelknerkgrieco, Sambrem, nrcerna went to open a bank account10:11
jelknerwe are trying to get our financial setup in order while i'm here10:12
jelknerso she'll be a bit late10:12
kgriecooh ok10:12
SambremThank you for letting me know!10:12
jelknerbtw, Sambrem, since you are interested in Graphic Design10:14
jelknercheck out
jelknerit is Natalia's graduation portfolio10:14
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jelknerGood morning, zOnny 11:08
jelknerkgrieco, Sambrem, is zOnny there with you?11:09
zOnnyjelkner: good morning11:09
jelknerzOnny, do you have a few minutes to meet with me?11:10
zOnnyjelkner: ok11:10
jelknerseveral things:11:10
jelkner1. repleacafill is coming next weekend to sprint with us11:11
jelknercan you change your schedule this week so you have off thursday and friday and can work saturday and sunday?11:11
jelknerACTION waits patiently for zOnny to respond...11:12
zOnnyjelkner: uhhmm11:13
jelkneri would understand no or yes, but i'm afraid i don't know what uhhmm means11:13
zOnnyjelkner: Do you need an answer right now?11:14
jelknerwell, what's the issue?11:14
jelknerit would be helpful to plan11:14
zOnnyjelkner: I see11:15
jelknerif you have something scheduled already, i guess the answer is no11:15
zOnnyjelkner: I can change it.11:15
jelknerup to you11:15
jelknerreplaceafill can work with GFbot 11:15
jelkneryou don't need to be here11:15
zOnnyjelkner: ok11:16
jelkneri just thought you might want to11:16
jelknerok, so nrcerna and GFbot will be off thursday and friday11:16
jelknerzOnny will stick to the original schedule11:16
jelknernext item11:16
zOnnyjelkner: ok11:16
jelknerlet's meet wednesday at 11 am to discuss our operating agreement11:17
jelknerwith the goal of signing it sunday11:17
jelkneri just sent an email to that effect11:17
jelknerubuntourist is often slow or mia on replies11:17
jelknerbut if we are going to get what needs to be done while i'm here completed11:18
zOnnyjelkner: ok11:18
jelknerwe can't drag our feet11:18
jelknerplease take a look at the agreement11:18
jelknerand be ready to raise any objections or suggest any changes you would like11:19
jelknerat our meeting on wednesday11:19
jelknernext item11:19
jelkneris hrodriguez there with you?11:19
zOnnyjelkner: ok11:19
zOnnyjelkner: who?11:19
zOnnyjelkner: ah11:20
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jelknerthere we go11:20
jelknershe is there11:20
jelknergood morning, hrodriguez 11:20
hrodriguezGood morning jelkner 11:20
jelknerdo you have a few minutes to chat with me after i finish with zOnny?11:20
hrodriguezjelkner, yes 11:21
jelknerzOnny, last item11:21
jelknerwhat is your plan for emailing susan today?11:21
jelknerdo you want help with that?11:21
zOnnyjelkner: yes11:21
jelknerso, can you please make a rough draft and send it to me for editing11:22
jelkneri'll edit it, send it back to you, and then you can send it to her11:22
jelknersound good?11:22
zOnnyjelkner: ok11:22
jelknercool, that's all i have11:22
jelknerdo you need anything from me, zOnny?11:23
zOnnyjelkner: I'm fine11:23
jelknersweet, i'll let you get back to work then11:23
jelknerhrodriguez, how's the new house?11:23
zOnnyjelkner: ttyl11:23
jelkneryou moved in, right?11:23
jelknerhrodriguez, r u here?11:24
hrodriguezjelkner, It's a little bit far from Arlington but its nice11:24
hrodriguezYes 11:24
jelknerhrodriguez, please send me your new address11:24
jelknerwe will need to update it for NOVALACIRO11:25
hrodriguezjelkner, 7100 Murphy CT, Temple Hills MD11:25
hrodriguezjelkner, you're welcome 11:26
jelknerhrodriguez, did you finish with the insurance report that CCHD needs?11:26
hrodriguezI have a question jelkner, Who is the certificate holder11:27
jelkneri'm not sure i know what a certificate holder is11:27
jelknerNOVALACIRO, right?11:27
hrodriguezThe guy responded to me this morning asking me for it,11:28
hrodriguezyes for NOVALACIRO11:28
jelknerWe have insurance under NOVALACIRO11:28
jelknerso, was he happy with that?11:28
jelknerbtw. hrodriguez, you owe me a time sheet for last week11:29
jelkneri didn't get it friday11:29
jelkneri assumed your moving had you distracted11:29
hrodriguezHe is asking me about the name and the address of the certificate holder 11:29
hrodriguezyes, I'll send to you ASAP 11:30
jelknerWell, I went to the office to get the insurance11:30
jelknerso try Jeff Elkner11:30
jelkner5041 7th Road South, #T111:30
jelknerArlington, VA 2220411:30
hrodriguezPerfect, Thanks 11:30
jelknerLast question, hrodriguez 11:31
jelknerwhat is your plan for today?11:31
jelknerand before you answer that11:31
jelknerlet me grab my phone so we can WhatsApp11:31
hrodriguezWork on NOVALACIRO Website and go out to knock door in the afternoon 11:31
jelknerhrodriguez, can you call me please?11:32
kgriecojelkner: me and Sambrem won't be here on Wednesday just as a heads-up, because we have another PRIME event11:40
jelknerkgrieco, i understand11:42
jelkneri'm here every day11:42
jelknerso you have plenty of flexibility in meeting your hours11:43
jelknerhrodriguez, r u back yet?11:43
hrodriguezjelkner, yes11:44
jelknerhrodriguez, here is a link to the Django Girls Tutorial:
jelknerit's even available in Spanish now!11:45
jelknerspend your time today going through that11:45
jelknerwhen you're finished, you should have an account on PythonAnywhere with a running blog app11:45
jelknerhave fun!11:46
hrodriguezwow that's nice 11:46
jelknerit's a great tutorial11:46
hrodriguezthank you so much11:46
jelkneryour welcome11:46
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jelknernrcerna, where are you?11:54
jelknerzOnny, can you give me edit rights please?11:54
jelknerhrodriguez, one more thing you need to do today11:54
jelknerask zOnny to look at why the email isn't working11:55
jelknerhrodriguez, remind him that is billable work11:55
jelknerso we will want to invoice NOVALACIRO for his time11:55
jelknerbut you need your email to work11:55
zOnnyjelkner: ok11:56
jelknerzOnny, i have rewritten the email12:04
jelknertake a look12:04
zOnnyjelkner: ok12:04
jelknerthe important thing when writing to a customer like this is to tell them what they need to know12:04
jelknerand nothing else12:05
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jelknershe doesn't want technical details12:05
zOnnyjelkner: It seems better 12:05
zOnnyjelkner: sent12:05
jelknertoo fast12:05
zOnnyjelkner: ?12:05
jelknerdid you cc kevin and me?12:05
zOnnyjelkner: Oops too fast12:05
jelkneranother good protocol12:06
jelknerwhenever you mention someone in the body of an email12:06
jelknerit is proper to cc them12:06
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jelknernow kevin doesn't even know we told susan he can explain12:06
jelknerso forward it to him, please12:06
zOnnyjelkner: what the subject should be?12:07
jelknerwhen you forward, do you need a subject?12:07
jelkneryou already sent it, yes?12:07
zOnnyjelkner: -.-12:07
jelknerforward it to me at the same time12:07
zOnnyjelkner: It wasn't sent yet12:08
jelknerahh, nice!12:08
zOnnyjelkner: "RAGU" report ? 12:09
jelknergood title would be: Status update for Annual Report of Achievements application12:09
jelknerRAGU is ubuntourist's short name12:09
jelkneruse the official one in official correspondence12:10
jelknercc ubuntourist and me12:10
jelknerSambrem, nrcerna16 is here12:10
SambremYeah, we're talking a little in #novawebdev_learn12:12
jelknerSo, when we plan for our business, we should do it here12:12
jelknerthe other channel is for learning12:12
jelknerthings that would just clutter our logs here12:13
jelknermake sense?12:13
SambremMakes sense.12:13
jelknerSo, Elizabeth's website looks good already12:13
jelknerand is a CMS12:13
jelknerso it doesn't make sense to try to redesign it12:13
jelknera good learning exercise, perhaps, but not valuable directly12:13
jelknerso, i have a proposal that would be both a good learning exercise *and* a potential win for us12:14
jelknerSambrem, i would like you and nrcerna16 to work up a really nice design for:12:15
jelkneri plan to offer to donate a LibreOrganize site to the coalition if they are interested12:15
jelknerit is a cause i deeply support12:15
jelknerand it would be great advertising for our coop12:16
jelknerthe coalition brings together partners from many important organizations across virginia12:16
jelknerif we did this website, they would all know about us12:16
SambremAlright, so we'll be redesigning the whole website?12:18
jelknerSambrem, i made a few suggestions to nrcerna16 about how to approach this12:20
nrcerna16Yes Sambrem, I mean we are going to propose the design and then Gfbot or zOnny could do it12:20
nrcerna16Nice, tell me :)12:20
jelknerthe plan will be for me to send an email to the organizers saying that we value what they are doing and would like to donate a new website to their cause12:21
jelknerthey will have to decide whether they want that or not12:21
jelknerso, to increase the chances that they like what they see12:21
jelknermake it much better, to be sure, but try to honor some of the aesthetic you see in the current site.12:22
jelknerthis isn't an artistic recommendation12:22
jelkneri'm not qualified to give you that12:22
jelknerits an interpersonal relationship suggestion12:23
jelknerthe current site was created by someone who took time to say how it should look12:23
jelknerthey "put themselves" into the site12:23
jelknerit is more likely they will feel all warm and fuzzy about the new site if they can "see themselves" in it12:24
jelknerdoes that make sense?12:24
SambremFor sure! 12:24
jelknergo forth and create beauty, Sambrem and nrcerna16!12:25
jelknerand have fun12:26
nrcerna16Ok I think we are going to switch to learn Channel Sambrem :)12:26
kgriecojelkner: do you have any tasks for me? I've been looking over the SchoolTool Book and the source12:27
jelknerso, kgrieco, like we discussed saturday12:29
jelkneryour task is to write a nice work of fiction12:29
jelknera work of technical fiction12:29
jelknerthat describes the functioning of a product that doesn't yet exist12:30
jelknerit does exist partially12:30
jelknerbut we want to describe how we want it to work12:30
jelknernow how it works now12:30
jelknermaybe you should start getting to know how it really works12:30
kgriecojelkner: I don't think I was there for that discussion. The last I was told was to look over the SchoolTool Book on Friday12:30
jelknerahh, i meant friday 12:31
kgriecojelkner: Is there a way to access LibreOrganize12:31
kgriecojelkner: on the website, nothing is clickable12:31
jelknerzOnny, is there a good sandbox where kgrieco can play?12:31
jelknerwe need an instance of Tendenci / LibreOranize so he can use this week to learn how it works12:32
jelknerthen for his last two weeks he can work on the documentation for what we want it to be12:32
jelknerzOnny, should we just give him an account on our own website?12:33
kgriecojelkner: by the way, my last day is actually next Friday July 2612:33
jelknerso we need to speed things up then12:33
jelknercompress the timeline12:33
jelknerso, zOnny, should we just give him an account on our own server?12:34
jelknerif he promises to try real hard not to break anything too badly?12:34
jelknerwe want him to work on the LibreOrganize book12:34
zOnnyjelkner: a new user?12:34
jelkneryou tell me, zOnny 12:34
zOnnyjelkner: or using admin only?12:34
jelkneryour the boss12:34
zOnnyjelkner: either one works for me.12:35
jelknerlike we said before12:35
jelknerusing admin is bad practice12:35
jelknerthere is no accountability12:35
jelkneryou don't know who did what from a shared account12:35
jelknerbasic accountability says give him his own account12:35
jelknerlet's set up a kgrieco account12:36
jelknerkgrieco, you will then be able to be part of our design discussion12:36
jelknerwe will be talking a lot this weekend12:36
jelknerso when you come back next monday12:36
jelkneryou should be a ready as possible to work on the LibreOrganize book12:37
jelkneryou've already helped a lot, btw12:37
jelknerso you are ahead already12:37
kgriecocool jelkner 12:37
jelknerbut if you can get a look at how tendenci works12:37
jelkneryou'll understand our problem12:37
jelknerwith is to hide most of its features12:38
jelknerand customize the ones we want to keep12:38
jelknerkgrieco, any questions?12:38
jelknerACTION gives kgrieco proper teacher wait time :-)12:39
kgriecojelkner: do you want me to find a way to hide those elements, or mostly focus on the documentation aspect?12:39
jelkneroh no12:39
jelknerif you could do that, you'd be making $120K as a software developer!12:40
jelknerwe only want you to understand the problem12:40
jelknerso you can write our fictional documentation12:40
kgriecooh okay12:40
jelknertogether with Sambrem, who could make some fake screenshots for you12:40
jelknerkgrieco, do you understand what i'm asking for12:41
jelknerif you look at our chat log from friday12:41
jelknerwe did talk briefly about this12:41
kgriecojelkner: yes just to see how the tendenci tool works and to start the fictional documentation12:41
kgriecoright jelkner 12:41
jelkneri'm hoping this will be a bit of an experiment in "documentation driven design"12:42
jelkneryou write some user documentation about how we wish the system works12:42
jelknerand then later, we try to make it work the way you say it does ;-)12:42
kgriecook jelkner 12:42
jelknerhave fun, kgrieco 12:43
nrcerna16jelkner I need yo show you this:
jelknerlooking now13:00
nrcerna16did you ever noticed what happens when you click on summit at
jelkneryes, nrcerna16, this was a special event that someone made a wix page for13:02
jelknerwhat they need is LibreOrganize!13:02
zOnnyGFbot: are you around?13:05
GFbotzOnny, tell me13:07
zOnnyGFbot: are you familiar with Thunderbird Email?13:09
jelknerzOnny, now let's hope ubuntourist stays on top of this!13:18
jelknersusan just emailed us back asking him to follow up13:18
zOnnyjelkner: ok13:22
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kgriecojelkner: i feel like I don't know enough about LibreOrganize to start working on the documentation. Is there a link to some general info about it so i can really understand what I'm writing about?13:44
jelknerkgrieco, sadly, there is not13:45
jelknerall we have is the website13:45
jelknerand what's in my head ;-)13:45
jelknerthe idea is to create a web application (a "platform", really)13:46
jelknerthat can be used by organizations to help organize their members13:47
jelknerby "organized" in this context i mean to conduct the work of the organization13:47
jelknerthat includes:13:47
jelkner1. Discussions (through our forum app)13:47
jelkner2. Get folks to meetings and document their participation13:48
jelkner3. Enable members and sub groups of members to vote online13:48
jelkner4. To manage membership status (active vs. expired), dues payments, etc.13:49
jelkneri am most certain that like all software, this list will grow over time13:50
jelkneras new users bring new requirements13:50
jelknerbut that's going to be the core of LibreOrganize to start13:50
kgriecookay jelkner. in tendenci, is there a specific way things work with voting for example? Will I have to learn how that works in Tendenci or can the users access the various voting pages whatever way Nova Web Dev chooses?13:51
jelknerdiscussions should also be available to groups within the organiation13:51
jelknertendenci doesn't have voting13:51
jelknerit has everything else we are using13:51
jelknerfor voting, we have a version of helios that Douglas Cerna hacked into our application13:52
jelknerDouglas used to call our application "Frank" (short for Frankenstein)13:53
jelknersince it was composed of the body parts of other applications13:53
jelknerwe didn't use that publicly, of course ;-)13:53
kgriecoso should the documentation be geared towards using it the way it's done with Helios, or is there flexibility in how we design the voting page13:53
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jelknerno, we need to document the way it works in LibreOrganize13:54
jelknerwe have made substantial usability improvements13:54
jelknerhelios uses an email based authentication system13:55
jelknerwhich makes sense given its general use case13:55
jelknerwhere voters are just members of an email list13:55
jelknerour voters are members of an organization, and can authenticate to our web platform13:55
jelkneron the version of the application their organization is running13:56
jelkneri apologize in advance, kgrieco, but we aren't really ready for the work you are being asked to do13:57
jelkneryou can simply tell me "i'm not up to this", and i'll find something else you could do13:57
jelknerif you want13:57
jelknerhow are your creative writing skills?13:58
kgriecojelkner: I feel like I can try to begin but if I feel like I'm not getting anywhere significant I will let you know13:58
jelknerthat sounds great13:58
kgriecojelkner: I'd say I can manage creative writing13:58
jelkneras i said, you have already delivered something of value to us13:58
jelknerits really technical writing13:58
jelknerbut you are writing about a fictitious application13:59
jelknerthat is terrorizing the town's folk ;-)13:59
jelknerbut that's only become they don't understand it13:59
nrcerna16I want to share this with you kgrieco and jelkner , replaceafill suggest us to use it as guide to improve LibreOrganize (you know Gfbot and me are working ont that)14:00
jelknerin all seriousness, you already created chapters for each component14:00
nrcerna16this could helpful to kgrieco14:00
jelknerstart with introductory material describing what the component is for14:01
jelknereven if you only get that far14:01
kgriecothanks nrcerna16 14:01
kgriecook jelkner 14:01
jelknerit will be a big help14:01
jelknerthanks, nrcerna16!14:01
jelknerbtw, kgrieco, replacefill is the developer who wrote it, and who dubbed it "Frank"14:02
nrcerna16np :)14:02
kgriecojelkner: so the documentation should be geared towards the administrators of the group, right? not necessarily the members themselves?14:07
jelkneryes, kgrieco 14:07
jelkneri asked you to look at the ST book for that reason14:08
jelknerour use case is similar14:08
kgriecook got it14:08
jelknerour goal should be to make LibreOrganize so intuitive to use that regular uses don't need a manual14:08
jelknerif we fail in achieving that, we won't be successful14:08
jelknerbut the expectation of folks who setup and administer the system will be higher14:09
jelknerthe book is for them14:09
jelknerthink of it also as aimed at folks looking to contract with us to set it up14:09
jelknerthey want to know what it can do14:10
jelknerACTION signing off for lunch14:38
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jelknerzOnny, ubuntourist is following up, yippee!15:26
zOnnyjelkner: I see15:27
jelknerSo you need to make that meeting, right?15:27
jelknerYou should respond promptly that you can.15:28
zOnnyjelkner: ok15:28
jelknercool, zOnny15:29
jelknermonday at 1 pm is good for us15:29
jelknergives you another evening with chedrick and sunday with ubuntourist to be ready15:29
zOnnyjelkner: ok15:29
jelknerbtw, zOnny, are you planning on going to the breakfast on 7/24 with Sambrem and kgrieco?15:31
jelkneri would normally volunteer to do that myself15:31
jelknerbut getting there from santa ana would be a logistical nightmare15:31
zOnnyjelkner: I see15:32
jelknerzOnny, did anyone ever tell you you talk to much15:32
jelknersuch a chatter box15:32
jelkner"I see", "ok", "ok", "I see"15:32
jelkneryou just never stop talking!15:33
zOnnyjelkner: I see15:33
jelknerACTION , after zOnny wakes him up with his humor, goes back to work15:34
nrcerna16zOnny has talk a lot with me lol 15:34
zOnnyjelkner: ok15:34
zOnnyACTION is confused :S15:35
nrcerna16why are you confused zOnny?15:35
GFbot:D ?15:36
nrcerna16jeklner you should try this:
zOnnyjelkner: I thought they want to meet with Kevin only. 15:45
jelknerLook at Kevin's last email, my friend.15:45
jelknerRead what it says.15:46
zOnnyjelkner: I see15:46
zOnnyjelkner: -.-15:46
jelkner"Yes, I should be able to make it then. I will see if I can get both RSIA and our lead developer to attend."15:46
jelkner"our lead developer"15:46
jelknerthat's you, zOnny!15:46
jelknerso please just reply with a nice, "Yes, I can be there Monday at 1 pm."15:47
zOnnyjelkner: ok15:47
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kgriecojelkner: i'm designing a general layout for what i imagine the web app would look like so far, in a google drawing document16:43
kgriecojelkner: there is the link if you have any suggestions. there are clickable links in the doc16:43
kgriecojelkner: also so far i have only worked on the member management area16:43
jelknerkgrieco, you should check with GFbot and nrcerna16 sooner rather than later to confirm that this effort will be helpful to them16:45
jelknernow that you have something to show them16:45
jelknerthey will be doing the implementation using it16:45
jelknerthanks, kgrieco 16:45
kgriecojelkner: I feel like a design to work off would be more helpful than making a layout. if there is a mockup that nrcerna16 and GFbot are working on that I can base the documentation off of, that would be helpful17:00
kgriecojelkner: i just made that flowchart because i didn't realize there were already design plans17:01
jelknerkgrieco, +117:07
jelknerthat's why i said you should communicate with them17:08
jelknerkgrieco, Sambrem, i'm signing off for the day17:08
jelkneri started at 5 am here (7 am your time)17:08
jelkneri'm doing that to avoid the heat17:09
jelknerit gets really hot here17:09
jelknerso let's chat again when you arrive tomorrow17:09
kgriecook jelkner 17:09
jelknerhasta maƱana17:10
jelknerACTION signs off for the day17:10
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