IRC log of #novawebdev for Saturday, 2017-04-22

*** jelkner has joined #NovaWebDev10:48
jelknerGood morning, Bots.10:49
*** German_ has joined #NovaWebDev10:56
German_Good morning, jelkner ;-)10:56
jelknerGood morning, German_!10:58
jelknerI need to restart my computer. Something is wrong with the webcam audo driver on ubuntu 17.04.10:59
jelknerlouieae was hearing the same sound you and replaceafill reported since my update10:59
jelkneri never should have done that10:59
jelknerversionitis strikes again :-(11:00
*** louisea has joined #NovaWebDev11:00
German_you can't downgrade?11:00
jelknerdowngrading is really hard11:00
German_Oh, jelkner 11:00
German_Good morning, louisea 11:00
jelknersince this only effects mics on webcams, better to just use a headset for now11:00
jelkneryou two chat while i reboot11:01
jelknercya soon...11:01
German_Ok, jelkner 11:01
louiseahow's it going German_? 11:02
German_I'm good and you?, louisea 11:02
louiseapretty good, enjoying my Saturday. I'm baking some bread11:03
German_Oh, really?11:04
louiseayeah, I wanted to learn how to do it.11:04
German_that's good, louisea 11:04
louiseayou up to anything fun today?11:04
German_I've never done that. :-(11:04
louiseait's not hard at all11:05
German_Just stay home, louisea 11:05
German_I prefer stay at home, louisea 11:05
louiseame too, for the most part11:06
louiseaI have a friend coming over for dinner. but other than that I'll be here11:07
*** jelkner has joined #NovaWebDev11:07
jelkneralright, i'm back11:07
jelkneri'm in the NOVA Web folder on Google Docs11:08
German_OK, jelkner 11:08
jelknerwe should make a new folder called "RFPs"11:08
jelknerlouisea, where is the document?11:08
jelknerGerman_, did you have a question?11:09
jelknergreat work on SEO, btw!11:09
German_Thanks, and yes jelkner 11:09
jelknerboth Celina's and the AEA websites now show up at the top of the search11:09
German_I asked to you yesterday, if you can give me a simple description for our website, jelkner 11:10
louiseait's outside of a folder. and it's called NDI_CivicTechSoftwareDeveloper_Application11:10
German_actually, our website doesn't have SEO at the moment!, jelkner 11:12
jelknerIt should, German_, can you add it?11:12
jelknerlouisea, i moved it to the RFPs folder, and have it open11:13
German_I can write it by myself, that's not a problem. jelkner 11:13
German_;-)11:13
jelknerexcellent!11:13
jelknerlouisea, should we start with the intro paragraph?11:14
jelkneryou took the material straight from our website11:14
louiseasure. I just copied it from the website11:14
jelknerbut this gives us a chance to deepen your understanding of the marketing and business side of this11:15
louiseathe best thing to do probably is to try to align the introduction with NDI's mission11:15
jelknerhopefully, you'll soon understand that better than the rest of us! ;-)11:15
louiseayeah I looked into their DemTool already 11:16
jelknerthe cool thing is that NDI's mission is consistent with what a bunch of us in NOVA Web are about - progressive politics and platform democracy11:16
jelkneras you and i discussed earlier, what is on our website is our core mission11:16
louiseayes, I understand11:17
jelknerwe want to find a way for German_, amamuel, and victor to get full time, good work in web development11:18
jelkneras long as we don't loose that understanding, it may also be the case that the best way to do that is by getting higher end work for replaceafill, ubuntourist, (and perhaps aelkner and others)11:19
jelknerthat's what this RFP is about11:19
jelknerso in any case, the things to emphasize here are our deep commitment and long experience with free software11:20
jelkneri think the fact we are doing PWPC websites may help, too11:20
louiseapwpc?11:21
jelknerPrince William Progress Coalition11:21
jelknerKen Boddeye, Elizabeth Guzman, and Lee Carter11:21
jelknerGerman_ and Rena are doing their websites11:21
louiseaok, not Jacqueline Smith's?11:22
jelknerNo, she isn't actually a Berniecrat11:22
louiseafine by me ;)11:23
jelknerjust a progressive democrat the PWPC folks were supporting11:23
jelkneryes, me too, but it is the OR movement where we want to play11:23
louiseaI've been thinking about this...11:24
jelknerthey will be trying to use 21st first century social networking tech to organize folks11:24
louiseaand the other Dem's won't?11:24
jelknerwe want to write some of those tools as open source software11:24
louiseaI imagine there are more of them and with more money11:24
louiseathe more center Dem's that is11:24
jelknerwe would certainly be open to that, but i think you will find they will run from software freedom11:25
jelknerthey want corporate control11:25
jelknernot democratic platforms11:25
jelknerthey don't need us11:25
louiseaI see what you mean...11:25
jelknerthey have ActBlue, NationBuilder, etc11:25
jelknerwe want to compete with those proprietary tools by developing free alternatives11:26
louiseaand do the OR people have good money?11:26
louiseanot that we are asking for very much11:27
jelknerNew Virginia Majority, Our Revolution, and other progressive groups that at least say they have a commitment to worker control are our best hope11:27
louiseaYeah I understand, and have been contemplating it lately11:27
jelknerthey already spend significant money on the proprietary tools11:27
jelknerour only path forward is to leverage the power of collaboration to beat the proprietary solutions11:28
jelknerthat's why we've been looking into things like tryton11:28
jelknerand why this RPF is such a good one for us to pursue11:29
jelknerAnyway, what do we need to submit this on time?11:30
jelknerLet me work on that intro paragraph11:30
jelknerGive me 15 minutes...11:30
louiseaEverything that the proposal asks for is in bold headlines11:31
German_Nova web development is located in arlington? louisea 11:32
louiseaThe parts that will probably take some effort are "Response Time" "Standard Development and Support Methodology" and the budget11:32
louiseaGerman_ yes.11:33
German_just Arlington?, louisea 11:33
jelknerOK, just a few tweaks on those intro paragraphs11:34
louiseawhy do you ask German_?11:34
louiseaFor legal purposes documents get sent to Arlington.11:35
louiseaAs far as where work get's done, it's virtual11:35
jelknerlouisea, you will need to emphasize replaceafill's lead role on the SchoolTool project (http://schooltool.org) and Kevin's long history as a general purpose programmer at Gallaudet for this RFP.11:36
German_I'm writing a simple description that I'll use for SEO, louisea 11:36
jelknerSchoolTool was a large, open source web application11:36
jelknerthe source code is publicly available and replaceafill was the last lead developer on the project11:37
louiseaGerman_ then how about Washington, D.C, Arlington, VA and El Salvador?11:37
jelknerthe folks as NDI can look and see what replaceafill can do11:37
jelknerthat will be our strongest selling point11:37
German_Thanks, louisea 11:37
jelkneralso, ubuntourist's many years of professional experience and networking with the free software movement in DC is a big plus.11:38
louiseaokay. I'll get that in there.11:40
jelknerlouisea, you are going to need to talk directly to replaceafill and ubuntourist on the cost section11:41
louiseawhat to do you think about these other clinets?11:41
louiseajelkner_ okay11:41
louiseaare they worth keeping?11:42
jelkneri'm thinking...11:43
jelknerfor this RFP, most of the other sites (Rosslyn Rotary, BRAVO, AEA, and honestly, even the PWPC sites) are not really web applications as much as web sites.11:44
jelkneronly SchoolTool really ranks as the kind of large scale, web application development they will be asking us to do.11:45
louiseaI thought you might say that11:45
jelknerSchoolTool is actually bigger than what they are asking us to do, so it is our strongest resume item11:45
louiseaI think only keeping the SchoolTool is best then11:46
louiseakeep it simple and short11:46
jelknerGreat11:46
louiseawhat about the work at Gallaudet?11:46
jelknerYes, the Gallaudet project also11:46
louiseaOkay, so keep those two and a few bullet points summarizing those projects11:46
jelknerthat is software written in Python for a research project11:46
jelknerYes, and that brings our two principles, replaceafill and ubuntourist, squarely into the RFP where they need to be11:47
German_If you type "NOVA Web Development Arlington, VA" on google we should appear on the second page.11:48
German_jelkner, 11:48
louiseahey, I have to step away from the computer for a sec11:49
louiseaon a phone call11:49
jelknerActually, just "NOVA Web Development" and we appear on the first page11:49
jelknerok11:49
German_Really?, jelkner 11:49
jelkneri have a large monitor, German_, so it may be the 2nd page for you ;-)11:51
jelkneri see 4 adds, then we are the 4th non-add listing11:51
German_Ok, I think SEO is working. jelkner 11:51
jelknersweet!11:51
jelkneryou da man, German_!11:51
German_;-)11:51
German_I'm waiting for Elizabeth's answer,but maybe she's busy11:52
jelknerI will see her tomorrow evening11:52
louiseaI'm back11:52
German_Great!, jelkner 11:52
jelknerso I'll check-in with her11:52
German_welcome back, louisea 11:53
louiseathank you thank you11:53
jelknerlouisea, can we talk "big picture" for a few minutes?11:53
louiseajelkner... certainly11:53
louiseaso big that it's not work related11:53
louisea?11:53
louiseathat would be even more fun11:54
jelkneron the RFP side, you will need resumes from both replaceafill and ubuntourist11:54
jelknerno, i mean "big picture" NOVA Web Development11:54
louiseaahhhh. well that's okay11:54
jelkneras we have been saying, getting German_ working full time for us, with part time work for the rest of the young developers, is the goal we should be shooting for11:55
jelknerthis RFP is a high end web application job not directly related to that.11:56
jelkneri have a sense that success will require a synergy11:56
jelknerbetween the high end, big $$ gigs that establish our reputation and provide a pathway of growth for the younger developers11:57
German_I'm leaving, talk to you soon jelkner and louisea 11:57
jelknerlater, German_, thanks!11:57
louiseatake it easy German_11:57
German_Thx!, jelkner 11:57
* German_ is leaving the office11:57
louiseayeah, I think that you are right about that jelkner11:57
jelknerand web sites like the ones we are doing for the candidates11:57
jelknerthat are lower $$, will need to be much more numerous, but provide work experience for less experienced developers11:58
jelkneranyway, that's all i wanted to say on this11:58
jelkneri think about it all the time11:58
louiseaI've read of some business rule of thumb11:58
jelknerfinding that synergy is our quest11:58
louisea90% of the revenue comes from 10% of the clients11:59
louiseasomething like that.11:59
jelknerthat sounds good11:59
jelknerit's funny, there is a similar rule in software development11:59
jelknerthe first 90% of the project takes 10% of the time11:59
jelknerand the last 10% takes 90% of the time12:00
jelknerit is really important for beginners to learn that12:00
louiseayeah those rules are good for setting reasonable expectations12:00
jelkneri get some wiz bang young folks who *love* working on the first 90%, but hate that last 10% ;)12:00
louiseayeah that last 10% is too boring12:01
jelknertedious, painful, aggravating12:01
jelknerthat's what makes a pro12:01
louisea10% inspiration 90% perspiration12:01
jelknersomeone who can slog through that12:02
jelknerindeed12:02
louiseabetter to chill under a tree with a drink and a friend12:02
jelknerok, do you need any more from me at the moment?12:02
louiseanope, I'll email replacefill and ubuntuourist12:02
jelkneri'll bring my tablet to our breakfast tomorrow so we can look over what you've got12:03
louiseaI'll CC you12:03
jelknerthanks12:03
jelknerthey should give you resumes12:03
louiseayup and answers to the other questions.12:03
jelknersweet12:03
jelknersee you tomorrow for breakfast12:03
louiseasee you tomorrow morning12:03
louiseaI'm out12:03
jelknerA member of our OR Arlington cooperative group just sent us a link to a good video on what coops are: http://www.toolboxfored.org/project/own-the-change/17:36
jelkner!reminder Recommend http://www.toolboxfored.org/project/own-the-change/ for NOVA Websters to view and discuss as we decide how to organize ourselves.17:44
jelkner!remind Recommend http://www.toolboxfored.org/project/own-the-change/ for NOVA Websters to view and discuss as we decide how to organize ourselves.17:45
remindBotwill print Recommend http://www.toolboxfored.org/project/own-the-change/ for NOVA Websters to view and discuss as we decide how to organize ourselves. at 2017-04-25 19:00:0017:45
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