IRC log of #novawebdev for Thursday, 2018-08-02

*** lelkneralfaro has joined #novawebdev02:10
*** lelkneralfaro has joined #novawebdev09:28
*** jelkner has joined #novawebdev10:21
*** replaceafill has joined #novawebdev10:47
*** zOnny has joined #novawebdev10:54
replaceafilljelkner, let me know when you have a chance to discuss nea4or payments10:58
*** hrodriguez has joined #novawebdev11:31
lelkneralfarozOnny, you here?11:33
zOnnylelkneralfaro: yes ?11:35
lelkneralfarozOnny, I sent you an email last night about the invoice. I'd like to process it this morning before I leave in a few hours but I don't have access to it. If I don't get to it this morning it will have to wait until I get back on Sunday11:36
lelkneralfarozOnny, oh just got your email :)11:37
zOnnylelkneralfaro: can you try it again ?11:37
lelkneralfarozOnny, yup that worked. I'll transfer the money now11:37
zOnnylelkneralfaro: thanks 11:38
lelkneralfarozOnny, one thing... 11:40
lelkneralfarozOnny, if I've got the numbers right there is only 220 left in the account from Paul. you've invoiced for 240. I'll send you the 220 now and if we are going to do more work with Paul we should probably start requesting more money11:41
zOnnylelkneralfaro: ok11:43
zOnnylelkneralfaro: He will be requesting more because he seems not interested about the Tendenci CMS at all11:44
lelkneralfarozOnny, +111:44
lelkneralfarozOnny, do you send him time logs by the way? just curious11:44
zOnnylelkneralfaro: no, I didn't11:46
lelkneralfarozOnny, okay. that might be a good idea just so he is up to date. I'm not sure what his expectations are though...11:46
lelkneralfarozOnny, one more thing lol... do you pay a fee when I send you money through paypal?11:46
zOnnylelkneralfaro: I can send him if you prefer 11:47
lelkneralfarozOnny, up to you. but if you are going to request more money it might be a good idea for him to see the work log11:47
zOnnylelkneralfaro: yes11:48
lelkneralfarozOnny, okay, I'll send now and hopefully no fee.11:49
zOnnylelkneralfaro: I can crete a folder with all the time logs and send it to him11:49
lelkneralfarozOnny, +111:49
zOnnylelkneralfaro: Do you want to me write about that he doesn't have money left in his account?11:51
lelkneralfarozOnny, yes if you feel comfortable with that. you could include the time log there11:52
zOnnylelkneralfaro:  on it11:52
lelkneralfarozOnny, how much is the fee that you pay by the way? if you are busy and can't look it up now it's not urgent11:52
zOnnylelkneralfaro: checking11:53
zOnnylelkneralfaro:     Fee11:54
zOnny    -$3.7811:55
lelkneralfarozOnny, okay not too much. let me know if you still have to pay a fee on the money i just sent you11:55
zOnnylelkneralfaro: the last one doesn't include fee 11:56
lelkneralfarozOnny, cool. wish I had done it like that before :(11:56
zOnnylelkneralfaro: that was my fault 11:57
lelkneralfarozOnny, you sure, i think it may have been mine. in any case it wasn't much11:58
zOnnylelkneralfaro: np12:01
zOnnylelkneralfaro: thanks 12:01
*** mr_german has joined #novawebdev12:03
lelkneralfaromr_german, have a moment to chat. sorry I know you just signed on, but I'm rushing just a bit12:08
mr_germanlelkneralfaro, sure12:09
lelkneralfaromr_german, cool. I just sent you some emails from Elizabeth Guzman's office and I just wanted to make sure I can answer any questions you might have before I leave. Could you check out the emails within the next hour and ask me about anything you might want to clarify?12:11
jelknerlelkneralfaro, what did you mean by "transfer the money"?12:16
jelknerI think we have a serious problem here12:16
lelkneralfarojelkner, what are you talking about?12:16
jelknercontributing to our financial stresses12:16
jelkneryou wrote to zOnny at 11:31 "I'll transfer the money now"12:17
lelkneralfarojelkner, yup. what's the problem you are concerned about?12:17
jelknerwhere did you transfer money?12:17
lelkneralfarojelkner, to edzon12:17
jelknerthat's what i'm talking about12:17
lelkneralfarojelkner, what's the issue?12:17
jelkneri paid edzon for the month12:17
mr_germanlelkneralfaro, yes, i just saw them12:18
jelknerany invoices coming in should be going into our common fund12:18
mr_germanlelkneralfaro, cool12:18
jelknerit ma be lat in the game12:18
lelkneralfaromr_german, +112:18
jelknerwe should have had this conversation several months back12:18
jelknerif we are going to survive the next several months12:19
lelkneralfarojelkner, not that late. it wouldn't be difficult to reorganize our funds if we had to12:19
jelknerwe need to take shared responsibility for it12:19
jelknerwe have too12:19
jelknerhere's how12:19
lelkneralfarojelkner, I've just been paying zOnny for his work on Paul's site, which I think we did discuss before12:19
jelknereach coop member working full time for us states what the minimum they need is to keep working full time12:19
jelknerwe set about together coming up with that12:20
lelkneralfarojelkner, +112:20
jelknerthat includes replaceafill, zOnny, lelkneralfaro, and mr_german 12:20
lelkneralfarojelkner, it's a new problem by the way 12:20
jelknerthen when we invoice it goes into our coop income12:20
jelknerfrom which we can pay out12:20
lelkneralfarojelkner, I think only in the past two months have we changed up our financial methods12:21
jelknerour financial methods have always been a mess12:21
jelknerwe need to clean that up12:21
jelknerwith ubunturouist and i just throwing in what we need and not thinking about it12:22
jelknerwe have no plan to rationalize our income distribution12:22
lelkneralfarojelkner, yeah it's difficult when we are paying out from the company account and your own, complicates the accounting12:22
jelkneras you know, that is coming to an end12:22
jelknerit isn't really12:22
jelkneryou need to learn a wee bit more about accounting12:22
lelkneralfarojelkner, lol12:23
jelkneryour uncle and i were just talking about how easy it is last night12:23
lelkneralfarojelkner, yeah I know it's not that hard about the arithmetic. it's just the coordination and communication that add the work12:23
jelknera double entry accounting system always sums to zero.12:23
lelkneralfarojelkner, I understand that12:23
jelknerthe real issues is who gets what when12:24
lelkneralfarojelkner, yes that's what i mea12:24
lelkneralfarojelkner, *mean12:24
jelkneri don't understand why you say its been changing12:24
lelkneralfarojelkner, I think up to this point we were okay with zOnny getting paid for the work he was billing for Paul's work12:24
jelknerever since replaceafill, zOnny, and lelkneralfaro have been working full time12:24
jelknerwe have been making sure they got their minimum monthly allowance12:25
jelknerthe problem is you may have been giving them more than that based on income12:25
jelknerand not putting anything into the general fund12:25
jelknerwe can't do that12:25
jelknerthings are a bit complicated, i understand12:26
jelknersince ubuntourist has a long history of working as an independent contracter through the coop12:26
lelkneralfarojelkner, possibly so, if oyu have been giving them their minimum monthly allowance I shouldn't have been transferring anything to zOnny 12:26
jelkner+112:27
jelkneri'm taking care of zOnny 12:27
jelknerzOnny now needs to work like hell to be able to invoice so we can have something in the general fund for the months ahead12:27
jelkneror else we are finished12:27
jelkneri'm glad you started the study group, lelkneralfaro 12:28
jelknerwe have so much to learn12:28
zOnnyjelkner: lelkneralfaro it is clear 12:28
jelknerthat's why i cc everyone on these payroll discussions12:28
jelknerwe need to take shared ownership of this process12:28
jelknereveryone of us needs to have at least a basic understanding of our financial situation12:29
jelknerso we can plan together to address it12:29
jelknerreplaceafill, are you here?12:29
mr_germanlelkneralfaro, can i send you my questions via gmail?12:29
replaceafilljelkner, yes12:29
lelkneralfaromr_german, yes please12:29
jelknercan replaceafill and zOnny give me a delivery date on the first progressive web app?12:30
jelkneri'm about to start researching crowd funding12:30
replaceafilljelkner, i can't, maybe zOnny can12:30
jelknerso, i have a favor to ask you, replaceafill, as the lead developer12:30
jelknerit is fine to delegate this to zOnny, but at the end of the day, you need to make sure it is happening12:31
jelknerwe can't have several weeks pass, find ourselves at the end of august, and have no progress12:31
replaceafilljelkner, cool, but i thought you were in charge of the US branch :)12:32
replaceafilljelkner, i'll need to set up periodic meetings then12:32
jelknerplease correct me if you disagree, my friend12:32
replaceafilljelkner, i kind of12:32
jelknerbut i see my responsibility as coming up with customers and funding12:32
replaceafilljelkner, but i understand your point12:32
jelknerthat is about all i can handle12:32
replaceafilljelkner, so i'll do it12:32
zOnnyjelkner: we have already started on it yesterday12:33
replaceafilljelkner, urgent things get in the way sometimes12:33
jelknerthe development team is replaceafill, zOnny, mr_german, and sometimes mjsir911 (but not dependably)12:33
zOnnyreplaceafill: it that consern I should stop test the comments ?12:33
zOnny*concern12:33
jelknerwe need to be thinking about our product12:34
replaceafillzOnny, you should12:34
zOnnyreplaceafill: ok12:34
replaceafilljelkner, we have a serious communication problem12:34
jelknerlike i keep saying, we need to imagine ourselves sitting down with a prospective customer / funder / supporter12:34
jelknerand how, replaceafill, would you like to address that?12:34
replaceafilljelkner, shared responsability as you said12:35
replaceafilljelkner, but in the development side12:35
jelkneri agree with you that communication is key12:35
replaceafilljelkner, not just finances12:35
replaceafilljelkner, i'm not aware of zOnny or mr_german timings or ETAs12:35
replaceafilljelkner, they're not aware of mine12:35
jelknerso, i think abandoning our weekly meeting was a bad idea12:35
replaceafilljelkner, well, not exactly12:35
replaceafilljelkner, i'm talking more about structured planning12:36
jelknerbut lelkneralfaro, who wanted to do that, should propose alternative ways to get communication up to speed12:36
replaceafilljelkner, again, from dev points of view12:36
jelknerjust like with financing, replaceafill 12:36
jelkner*everyone* needs to think about the big picture12:36
jelknerbut not everyone can get into the details12:36
jelknerno time for that12:36
replaceafilljelkner, ok12:36
replaceafilljelkner, you know about sprints right?12:37
replaceafilljelkner, not the schooltool kind :D12:37
jelknerof course12:37
replaceafilljelkner, but the ones that run every period of time, usually 2 weeks or so12:37
replaceafilljelkner, with issues assigned, etc12:37
replaceafilljelkner, and you focus to get those issues solved no matter what12:37
jelkneryou mean the agile dev cycle?12:37
replaceafilljelkner, correct12:37
replaceafilljelkner, that's a big problem for us12:38
replaceafilljelkner, because if a request comes12:38
replaceafilljelkner, we drop everything12:38
replaceafilljelkner, and work on that request12:38
replaceafilljelkner, the novalaciro rework should have been planned12:38
replaceafilljelkner, but *i* didn't know it was even coming12:38
jelknerperhaps the problem is the "we drop everything"12:38
replaceafilljelkner, see?12:38
jelknerit sucks12:38
jelknerbut we are small and understaffed12:38
replaceafilljelkner, context switching is expensive12:39
replaceafilljelkner, sure12:39
jelknerwe've got big problems with that we can't solve12:39
replaceafilljelkner, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't plan12:39
replaceafilljelkner, all of us12:39
jelknerif one of our few current projects comes with an unexpected request12:39
jelknerwe have to handle it12:39
replaceafilljelkner, yes but who does it is part of the planning12:39
jelknerotherwise, we will have no one to say we are good to work with12:39
replaceafilljelkner, according to assigned work12:39
replaceafilljelkner, if zOnny is buried in tasks12:40
replaceafilljelkner, and mr_german is free12:40
replaceafilljelkner, and they're both able to handle it12:40
replaceafilljelkner, the answer seems simple12:40
replaceafilljelkner, as long as they can handle the context switch12:40
jelknerwhy don't replaceafill and mr_german take care of the product12:40
jelknerand zOnny take care of the customers?12:40
jelknerthat means we need to take PWA away from zOnny 12:41
jelknerand give it to replaceafill and mr_german 12:41
replaceafilljelkner, that could be an alternative, but i'd like to have us all available for anything12:41
jelknerand take lee carter away from mr_german, and give it to zOnny 12:41
jelkneri don't want to tell you how to organize it, replaceafill 12:41
replaceafilljelkner, this week also showed that mr_german and i have ourselves our own communication problem12:41
jelknerbut if you think it isn't working, you need to change it12:41
replaceafilljelkner, sure12:41
jelknerthat's just my suggestion12:42
replaceafilljelkner, it's good we're having this conversation actually12:42
replaceafilljelkner, since we're all here :)12:42
jelkner+112:42
replaceafilljelkner, so i'd like to propose monday and friday meetings for developers12:42
replaceafilljelkner, and mr_german need to come forward and define *his* situation12:42
replaceafilljelkner, you take him as part of our group12:42
replaceafilljelkner, so do i12:42
jelknerthat's my top goal in my trip to ES12:43
replaceafilljelkner, but then he disappears suddenly12:43
replaceafilljelkner, with no warning12:43
replaceafilljelkner, and that's a problem12:43
jelknerhe and i will be spending a week together to talk about that12:43
replaceafilljelkner, a recurreing problem12:43
replaceafilljelkner, ok, i'll write an email12:44
jelknerso, zOnny, mr_german monday and friday dev meetings?12:44
replaceafillon monday we plan12:44
replaceafilltake work12:44
replaceafilldiscuss doubts of that work12:44
replaceafillwe are taking12:44
zOnnyreplaceafill: ok12:44
jelknermr_german, are you here?12:44
replaceafillhow much we can take, etc12:44
replaceafillon friday we evaluate how we did12:45
replaceafillwhat blocks we hit12:45
replaceafillwhat urgencies came12:45
jelknerkeep in mind, replaceafill, that when we get an email from elizabeth's guzman's staffer that we need a change to her site12:45
replaceafillthat made us deviate12:45
jelknerwe need to do it12:45
replaceafilli don't know about that email jelkner12:45
mr_germanyes12:45
replaceafilli undestand it12:45
jelknerthat hast to be part of the planning12:45
mr_germanjelkner, 12:45
replaceafilljelkner, +112:45
replaceafillso on monday everyone informs everyone of these things12:46
replaceafillwe shouldn't handle things individually anymore12:46
mr_germanjelkner, sounds good12:46
jelkneri'd like to propose that zOnny be the first responder to unexpected things12:46
replaceafillotherwise i'm not aware of zOnny's meetings with Daniela from novalaciro12:46
jelknerthe reason i request that is that the workflow goes easier12:46
jelknerlelkneralfaro and i receive the requests12:46
zOnnyreplaceafill: I have been started already this book to understand the basics http://shop.oreilly.com/product/0636920052067.do12:46
replaceafilljelkner, my former company had a firefighter role12:46
jelkneri see zOnny every day or can find him easily12:47
jelkner+112:47
replaceafilljelkner, that was the person dedicated to "urgendcies"12:47
jelknerzOnny the firefighter ;-)12:47
replaceafill:D12:47
jelknerwe need to get him a hat12:47
replaceafill:))12:47
zOnnyI have been testing some scripts with nathan12:47
replaceafillso the firefighter role takes tasks at will12:47
jelkner+112:47
replaceafilldepending on their availability12:48
jelknerwhenever a fire breaks out12:48
replaceafillbut making the group aware12:48
jelknerit is self-explanitory12:48
zOnnyreplaceafill: the book seems promising12:48
replaceafillzOnny, cool12:48
jelknerlelkneralfaro, we need to bill flint and novalacir12:48
jelknero12:48
replaceafilljelkner, so i think with a little of energy we could set a process like this12:48
jelknerand put that in the general fund for next month12:48
replaceafillenergy enthusiasm whatever is the work12:49
jelknergreat, replaceafill, let's do it!12:49
replaceafill:)12:49
replaceafillcool12:49
jelknerlelkneralfaro, did you see that?12:49
zOnnylelkneralfaro: I am sending the email now to flint 12:49
replaceafilljelkner, when is a good time to talk nea4or payments?12:50
jelkneryou tell me12:50
jelkneri'm here at aelkner's all day today and tomorrow12:50
zOnnyreplaceafill: we made a good progress with marco yesterday12:50
jelknerwe have evening plans12:50
jelknerbut will be at work all day12:50
zOnnyreplaceafill: did you see our branch ?12:50
lelkneralfarojelkner, +112:50
replaceafillzOnny, did you tell me about the branch? :)12:50
lelkneralfarojelkner, free for a quick call?12:51
zOnnyreplaceafill: good question12:51
jelknerlelkneralfaro, +112:51
replaceafillzOnny, see that's my point :)12:51
jelknerlelkneralfaro, i can call you12:51
lelkneralfarojelkner, cool please do12:51
jelknerwhen, now?12:51
replaceafillzOnny, we're not very organized12:51
replaceafillzOnny, you're still school free during august, right?12:52
zOnnyreplaceafill: yes12:52
replaceafillmr_german, still here?12:52
mr_germanreplaceafill, yes12:52
replaceafillzOnny, mr_german cool12:52
replaceafillzOnny, mr_german so are you ok with this "plan on monday" "verify on friday" idea?12:52
replaceafillzOnny, mr_german if we take a task for the "sprint"12:53
replaceafillzOnny, mr_german it's our responsability to get it done12:53
replaceafillzOnny, mr_german i've learned that it's best to take just a few things and get them done12:53
replaceafillzOnny, mr_german than taking a lot and get only to half of it12:54
replaceafillzOnny, mr_german that's the "shared responsibility" we were discussing12:54
mr_german1+12:54
replaceafillzOnny, mr_german and we take work12:54
replaceafillzOnny, mr_german we don't get work assigned12:54
replaceafillzOnny, mr_german i won't tell you what to work on12:55
replaceafillzOnny, mr_german you'll have to decide12:55
replaceafillzOnny, mr_german  all i do is to set priorities on tasks12:55
replaceafillzOnny, mr_german and we start taking from the highest priority12:55
replaceafillzOnny, mr_german makes sense?12:55
replaceafillzOnny, mr_german so how about 11 am Eastern Time for our monday meetings?12:56
replaceafillmr_german, that's 9 am Salvadorean Tiem12:56
replaceafillzOnny, mr_german and it's our responsibility to be *ready* for those meetings12:57
replaceafillzOnny, mr_german with questions and things to report12:57
zOnnyreplaceafill: it works for me12:58
replaceafillcool, mr_german?12:58
mr_germanreplaceafill, it could be a 9:30?12:59
replaceafillzOnny, is 11:30 am ok for you?13:00
zOnnyreplaceafill: np13:00
replaceafillmr_german, 9:30 our time then13:00
replaceafillzOnny, mr_german remember, this will be mondays and fridays13:01
replaceafillzOnny, mr_german and we'll all report13:01
replaceafillzOnny, mr_german so everybody speaks at that meeting :)13:01
replaceafillunlike our old meetings :D13:01
mr_germanreplaceafill, so.. tomorrow13:01
mr_germando we have a meeting13:02
mr_german?13:02
zOnnyreplaceafill: is tomorrow Friday ? uhhmmm13:02
replaceafillmr_german, zOnny no, we start on august 6th13:02
mr_germanoh ok13:02
replaceafillzOnny, in the meantime keep going with the wpa work13:02
zOnnyreplaceafill: cool13:02
replaceafillmr_german, and i understand you have Elizabeth Guzman work13:02
replaceafillzOnny, mr_german i may contact you before monday to get some information about those tasks13:03
replaceafillzOnny, mr_german one problem we have13:03
replaceafillzOnny, mr_german is that our tasks are not defined anywhere13:03
replaceafillzOnny, mr_german so for example the Elizabeth Guzman request should land somewhere13:03
replaceafillzOnny, mr_german not being only in lelkneralfaro and mr_german emails13:03
replaceafillzOnny, mr_german same for novalaciro or paul flint requests13:04
replaceafillzOnny, mr_german any work you're aware needs to be done13:04
replaceafillzOnny, mr_german you need to file it somewhere13:04
replaceafillzOnny, mr_german the somewhere is still unclear13:04
replaceafillzOnny, mr_german but i think it'll be gitlab13:05
replaceafillzOnny, mr_german so get used to filing issues13:05
replaceafillzOnny, mr_german and write clearly for your fellow coworkers13:06
replaceafillzOnny, mr_german i think that's all i had13:06
replaceafillzOnny, mr_german any questions?13:06
zOnnyreplaceafill: I faced a long delay on Tuesday  with Novalaciro,13:06
replaceafillzOnny, i know13:07
zOnnyreplaceafill: I didn't figure out which was my role there13:07
zOnnyreplaceafill: about the event 13:07
replaceafillzOnny, i think it was unclear13:07
replaceafillzOnny, but we should work to make that not happen again13:07
zOnnyreplaceafill: correct13:08
replaceafillzOnny, suppose someone gives you a task13:08
replaceafillzOnny, and the task doesn't have a expected date13:08
replaceafillzOnny, or expected outcome13:08
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replaceafillzOnny, you *should not* take responsability for an unclear task13:08
replaceafillzOnny, and more importantly you shouldn't be creating unclear tasks13:09
replaceafillzOnny, like our sticky nav yesterday13:09
replaceafillzOnny, it's a good idea13:09
replaceafillzOnny, but you shouldn't even get to the coding phase without asking first13:09
replaceafillzOnny, experimenting is expensive13:09
replaceafillzOnny, and i understand you learn13:09
replaceafillzOnny, but if you share what you're trying to do before you start13:10
replaceafillzOnny, you'll spend less time and it's highly probable you'll get better outcome13:10
zOnnyreplaceafill: everything that I do is thinking in the improvement of our home website :(13:10
replaceafillzOnny, i understand that13:10
replaceafillzOnny, but plan better13:10
replaceafillzOnny, why do you ask for feedback *after tha fact*?13:11
jelknerask the saying in carpentry goes, measure twice, cut once!13:11
replaceafillzOnny, because you want to please everyone, right?13:11
replaceafillzOnny, because you feel it shouldn't be just you deciding13:11
zOnnyreplaceafill: I am learning :(13:11
replaceafillzOnny, well, you could do that *before* too13:11
replaceafillzOnny, i know13:11
replaceafillzOnny, we all are13:12
replaceafillzOnny, i hit and fumble a lot, don't worry13:12
replaceafillzOnny, let's try this more organized approach13:12
replaceafillzOnny, and see where we get13:12
replaceafillas i was telling mr_german this past week13:13
replaceafilla serious communication problem is that it takes him too much time just to set up a Tendenci instance13:13
replaceafillthat's not a technical problem13:13
zOnnyreplaceafill: it happens to me as well13:13
replaceafillbecause we've solve that13:13
replaceafilli don't understand why13:14
replaceafillit takes 5-10 minutes to the scripts to run13:14
replaceafillmaybe you are not using them?13:14
zOnnyreplaceafill: with more practice :D13:14
replaceafillmaybe they're still incomplete?13:14
replaceafillzOnny, sure13:14
zOnnyreplaceafill: ttyl13:15
replaceafillbut the problem is that i'm not aware about it13:15
replaceafillzOnny, cool, ttyl13:15
replaceafilljelkner, can we talk now?13:15
jelkneryup, replaceafill 13:15
replaceafilljelkner, so i've explored the payment options for nea4or13:16
jelknerACTION is all ears13:16
replaceafilljelkner, we know how to pay through paypal now13:16
replaceafilljelkner, but i have a few logistic questions13:16
jelknerand amity has a paypal account13:16
jelknersetup for that purpose, yes?13:16
replaceafilljelkner, yes, that's the one i'm using for this13:16
jelknercool13:17
jelknerwhat is your question?13:17
replaceafilljelkner, i'm thinking we switch the current membership type13:17
replaceafilljelkner, instead of creating a new one13:17
jelknerif you can move the data13:17
jelknerit won't matter to me, right?13:17
replaceafilljelkner, right13:18
jelkneri don't care what you do inside the system, as long as i can use it13:18
replaceafilljelkner, but that means we need to adjust things, like invoices13:18
jelknerso do whatever you deem necessary13:18
jelknerbe ready, replaceafill, for some possible stories to come from our sunday night meeting13:19
replaceafilljelkner, so what expiration date should we set for people who paid you13:19
jelknerlet's make june 30, 201913:19
replaceafilljelkner, i mean people who you listed in the spreadsheet13:19
replaceafilljelkner, cool13:19
jelkneror wait13:19
jelknerjuly 3, 201913:19
replaceafilljelkner, cool13:19
jelknersince nea ra meetings always include july 413:20
jelknerso we can run a july 4 to july 3 fiscal year ;-)13:20
replaceafilljelkner, do you want people to get their membership auto approved even if they didn't pay?13:20
replaceafilljelkner, or are you making payment mandatory?13:20
jelknerpayment is mandatory13:20
replaceafilljelkner, cool13:20
jelknerif they don't pay the fee, they are not caucus members13:21
replaceafilljelkner, should we deactivate current users until they pay?13:21
jelknerso, that is the more interesting question13:21
jelkneri want to be able to easily email them asking them to sign-up13:21
jelknerso we want all previous members in our database, of course13:21
jelknerand we want easy access to communicating with them13:22
jelknerbut they should not have "active member" status13:22
jelknerso we need some other status for them13:22
jelknersee where i'm going, replaceafill?13:22
replaceafilljelkner, what about a manually managed group?13:22
replaceafilljelkner, "payment pending members"13:23
lelkneralfaromjsir911, you around?13:23
jelknerreplaceafill, what happens to folks whose annual membership has lapsed13:23
jelkner?13:23
replaceafilljelkner, current membership don't expire13:23
replaceafilljelkner, until we change them13:23
jelknerthey will need to expire in this case13:23
jelknermembership is annual13:24
replaceafilljelkner, right13:24
jelknerjuly 3, all memberships expire, unless someone has signed up at the end of june13:24
jelknerwe need to talk about that next spring13:24
jelknerso let's not worry about it now13:24
jelknerfor now, i need two things:13:24
replaceafilljelkner, ok, but that can be handled manually on a per case basis13:25
replaceafilljelkner, you can adjust the dates on each profile13:25
jelkner1. folks in the database who haven't paid this year need to be put in a status of "expired members"13:25
jelkner2. folks who have paid this year should be "active members"13:25
jelknerand i will want to be able to easily contact (through a single email) all the expired members13:25
jelknerto ask them to renew13:26
replaceafilljelkner, great13:26
replaceafilljelkner, i'll need to investigate the renew part though13:26
jelknercool13:26
jelkneranything else?13:26
replaceafilljelkner, i've tested with new members only13:26
replaceafilljelkner, no that's it for this, last thing13:26
replaceafilljelkner, it's about aea election13:26
replaceafilljelkner, we're discussing that tomorrow?13:26
jelkner+113:27
replaceafilljelkner, could we set a time for that?13:27
lelkneralfaromr_german, got a sec?13:27
replaceafilljelkner, do you know when you'll have the necessary info?13:27
jelknerbut it looks like there is only a single candiate for chair and a single candidate for treasurer13:27
jelkneri have the necessary info now, replaceafill 13:27
jelknerunless a very likely last minute nomination comes in13:27
replaceafilljelkner, ah ok13:28
jelkneri can give it to you know and you can be 99% sure it will be correct13:28
jelkneror you can wait til tomorrow13:28
replaceafilljelkner, is today the deadline for nominating?13:28
jelkneryes13:28
replaceafilljelkner, got it13:28
replaceafilljelkner, sure, i can work on the nea4or use case in the meantime13:28
mr_germanlelkneralfaro, tell me13:28
replaceafilljelkner, i'll look for you tomorrow morning13:28
jelkner+113:28
jelkneri'll be here13:28
replaceafilljelkner, thanks!13:28
replaceafillACTION done13:29
lelkneralfaromr_german, just wanted to check in one last time before I leave. I won't have internet until Sunday. So if you have any questions this is my last chance to answer13:29
mr_germanlelkneralfaro, we are going to use the current design and layout?13:29
lelkneralfaromr_german, the dev site one13:30
mr_germanyes13:30
lelkneralfaromr_german, yup that one13:30
mr_germancool13:30
mr_germanthe head shot photo where it should be?13:30
lelkneralfaromr_german, good question, i had the same one. you'll have to ask Chris13:31
lelkneralfaromr_german, he's a nice person13:31
mr_germancool13:31
mr_germanI can create the donate button with css13:31
lelkneralfaromr_german, cool13:31
mr_german1+13:31
mr_germanlelkneralfaro, thats all for now13:31
replaceafilllelkneralfaro, mr_german what's the target date for publishing that site?13:32
replaceafilllelkneralfaro, mr_german we'll need a new server i pressume13:32
replaceafilllelkneralfaro, mr_german and i'll need to do that13:32
lelkneralfaromr_german, just to highlight the points, Elizabeth wants a timeline as well. And putting the Gala event up is a priority for them13:33
lelkneralfaromr_german, sorry if my repeating is annoying. just want to make sure13:33
mr_germando not worry13:34
mjsir911lelkneralfaro: im around13:35
lelkneralfaromjsir911, any answer to the CanDo data dump question?13:36
mr_germanreplaceafill, I dont sure.13:36
mr_germani think ASAP13:37
replaceafillmr_german, what's the current dev site for Elizabeth Guzman?13:37
lelkneralfaroreplaceafill, dev.elizabethguzmanforvirginia.com13:38
mr_germanhttp://dev.elizabethguzmanforvirginia.com/13:38
replaceafilllelkneralfaro, mr_german are we doing this Tendenci?13:38
mr_germanno13:39
mr_germanflask13:39
replaceafilllelkneralfaro, mr_german why?13:39
lelkneralfaroreplaceafill, we started the project back in February13:39
mr_germanyep13:39
lelkneralfaroreplaceafill, they are returning to it now13:39
lelkneralfaroreplaceafill, after 6 months pause13:40
replaceafilllelkneralfaro, mr_german got it, are we going to use Tendenci for it?13:40
lelkneralfaroreplaceafill, I was considering that today. depends on how much work13:40
lelkneralfaroreplaceafill, I'm sure they would enjoy the CMS13:40
lelkneralfaroreplaceafill, but a timeline/payment details would have to be worked out13:41
replaceafilllelkneralfaro, i would enjoy being able to throw zOnny in13:41
replaceafilllelkneralfaro, if necessary13:41
lelkneralfaroreplaceafill, a new conversation started... not necessarily a problem, just a new route13:41
lelkneralfaroreplaceafill, +1 good point13:41
lelkneralfaroreplaceafill, well i've got 30 minutes if we want to make a decision now13:41
replaceafillmr_german, how long do you think it'd take you to Tendenci that?13:42
mr_germanreplaceafill, it will take half of the time13:42
replaceafillmr_german, how many hours is that?13:42
replaceafillzOnny, are you around?13:43
replaceafillmr_german, lelkneralfaro i don't want to have "snowflake" sites anymore13:43
lelkneralfaroreplaceafill, +113:43
mr_germanreplaceafill, I don't really know, I 'm bad calculating the time :(13:43
replaceafillmr_german, guess13:44
replaceafillmr_german, we need a number13:44
replaceafillmr_german, a number of hours13:44
mr_german15 hours it too much?13:44
replaceafillmr_german, could you explain the 15 hours?13:44
replaceafillmr_german, all pages are using the same layout, right?13:45
mjsir911oh lelkneralfaro,the migration plans?, I can definitely come up with a script / write up instructions to migrate to the new instance13:45
replaceafillmr_german, two sidebars on the sides, content in the middle13:45
mr_germanyeah13:45
replaceafillmr_german, as far as i can see there are only *four* pages13:45
replaceafillmr_german, currently13:45
mr_germanjust need to create a new template13:46
replaceafillmr_german, would that take you 15 hours?13:46
mr_germanreplaceafill, maybe 1013:46
lelkneralfaromjsir911, cool that's what i needed to know13:46
lelkneralfaromjsir911, thanks13:46
replaceafilllelkneralfaro, mr_german what's so different in elizabeth's dev site to this layout: https://ourrevolutionmd.novawebdevelopment.org/13:47
replaceafilllelkneralfaro, mr_german and i'm just referring to the navbar + big picture13:47
lelkneralfaroreplaceafill, nothing significantly different13:49
replaceafilllelkneralfaro, mr_german and that's already tendenci13:49
lelkneralfaroreplaceafill, I don't know if they would get picky about having the navbar be centered.13:49
replaceafilllelkneralfaro, i don't think that would be a problem for mr_german skills13:49
lelkneralfaroreplaceafill, +113:50
replaceafilllelkneralfaro, i mean center align the navbar13:50
mr_germanlelkneralfaro, np13:50
mr_german;)13:50
lelkneralfaromr_german, :)13:50
replaceafillmr_german, is this a 10 hour job?13:50
replaceafillmr_german, i'm not ....13:50
replaceafillmr_german, regateandote13:51
replaceafillmr_german, bargaining (That's the word i think)13:51
lelkneralfaroreplaceafill, mr_german easy to keep the social media feeds on the side? they like that13:51
lelkneralfaroreplaceafill, haggling is more used13:51
replaceafilllelkneralfaro, again, i don't want to be an a******, but that's cake for mr_german skills13:51
replaceafilllelkneralfaro, ah, thanks!13:52
lelkneralfaroreplaceafill, haggling is like trying to drop the price13:52
replaceafillah13:52
lelkneralfaroreplaceafill, is that what you meant?13:52
replaceafilli just want mr_german to realize he's done this before13:52
replaceafilllelkneralfaro, yes13:52
replaceafillusing tendenci13:52
replaceafillif he's going to put work on this13:53
lelkneralfaroreplaceafill, yes your not being an a********, I'm just not familiar with how easy it is to theme with tendenci. My own ignorance leads to the silly questions13:53
replaceafilli think it should be on tendenci13:53
replaceafilllelkneralfaro, :D13:53
lelkneralfaroreplaceafill, I agree tendenci sounds like the way to go13:53
lelkneralfaroreplaceafill, they can use the features or not, but having them is definitely a plus13:53
lelkneralfaroreplaceafill, and then zOnny will be able to jump in and work on it as well13:53
replaceafilllelkneralfaro, and makes everything simple for us13:54
replaceafilllelkneralfaro, yep13:54
lelkneralfaroreplaceafill, +113:54
mr_germanreplaceafill, I can use fluid container to add two sidebars to the new template13:54
replaceafillmr_german, lelkneralfaro have we telled them a target date for the expected changes?13:54
lelkneralfaroreplaceafill, nope13:55
lelkneralfaroreplaceafill, and they want to know that13:55
lelkneralfaroreplaceafill, but they just emailed this morning13:55
lelkneralfaroreplaceafill, I told them mr_german would get back to him13:55
lelkneralfaroreplaceafill, since I will be away13:55
replaceafilllelkneralfaro, i undestand13:55
replaceafillmr_german, are you able to work on this the next couple of days?13:56
mr_germanreplaceafill, yes.13:56
replaceafillmr_german, i can help you set up theme branches and servers13:57
replaceafillmr_german, so you can use tendenci13:57
mr_germanreplaceafill, that would very good13:57
mr_german:)13:57
mr_germanwould be*13:57
lelkneralfaroreplaceafill, mr_german sounds like things are settled, I'm going to cut out now13:57
replaceafillmr_german, cool, let's do that then13:57
replaceafilllelkneralfaro, thank you!13:57
mr_germanlelkneralfaro, thx again!13:57
lelkneralfaroreplaceafill, mr_german thank you both! have a good time :)13:58
replaceafillmr_german, so, let's start with the branches13:58
replaceafillmr_german, usual procedure13:58
replaceafillmr_german, check out the base theme and create elizabethguzman_dev and elizabethguzman_prod branches14:00
replaceafillmr_german, you should have tendenci7 instance so reuse that instead of trying to create new ones14:01
replaceafillmr_german, and if you need to create new ones just use the maketendenci7.sh script14:01
replaceafillmr_german, it shouldn't take long to run14:01
mr_germanyes14:01
mr_germanik14:01
replaceafillmr_german, not 5 hours ;)14:01
replaceafillmr_german, and then work locally for now14:02
replaceafillmr_german, honestly i don't see anything "specially" complicated in that layout14:02
replaceafillmr_german, that wouldn't take you 4 hours14:02
replaceafillmr_german, i mean, you're the one working on ORMD14:02
replaceafillmr_german, if you need to email someone, do it14:03
replaceafillmr_german, and give realistic dates based on tendenci14:04
mr_germanok14:04
replaceafillmr_german, let me know if you need something, otherwise let's touch base tomorrow14:04
mr_germancool14:08
replaceafillmr_german, could you do me a favor14:08
replaceafillmr_german, before you create the branches14:08
mr_germanyes?14:08
replaceafillmr_german, could you adjust the .gitlab-ci.yml file14:08
replaceafillmr_german, to include both branches14:08
replaceafillmr_german, you can just copy paste the last two lfor_dev and lfor_prod entries14:09
replaceafillmr_german, and adjust them for "elizabethguzman"14:09
mr_germanreplaceafill, ok, I'll do that14:10
replaceafillmr_german, cool, thanks14:10
zOnnyreplaceafill: Hello?14:17
replaceafillzOnny, hey14:19
replaceafillzOnny, never mind, the discussion is over :)14:19
replaceafillzOnny, carry on! ;)14:20
zOnnyreplaceafill: coll14:21
zOnny*cool14:21
replaceafillzOnny, i was just curious about your estimate for this design http://dev.elizabethguzmanforvirginia.com/14:21
zOnnyreplaceafill: it depends14:22
replaceafillzOnny, that's always the answer i like :)14:22
zOnnyreplaceafill: does the cutomer have the example 14:23
replaceafillzOnny, that site is the example14:23
replaceafillzOnny, the customer would like to replicate it in tendenci14:23
zOnnyreplaceafill: I mean the example of how they have in mind 14:24
replaceafillzOnny, that site is the example of what they have in mind...14:24
zOnnyreplaceafill: drawed in a paper14:24
replaceafillzOnny, we just want to port it from static to tendenci14:24
zOnnyreplaceafill: *drawn14:25
zOnnyreplaceafill: ah14:25
zOnnyMy estimate is 6hours14:27
replaceafillzOnny, could you break it down?14:27
zOnnyreplaceafill: uhhmmmmm what you mean ?14:29
replaceafillzOnny, if someone gives you a task and you estimate 6 hours14:29
replaceafillzOnny, how would you distribute those 6 hours?14:29
replaceafillzOnny, that's called breaking down14:29
replaceafillzOnny, 1 hour = set up dev environment, branches, instance, script, etc etc14:30
replaceafillzOnny, 1 hour = adjust default slider14:30
replaceafillzOnny, 1 hour = adjust navbar14:30
replaceafillzOnny, that's breaking down14:30
zOnnyreplaceafill: 2 hours on setting up tendenci instance14:31
replaceafillzOnny, ouch14:31
replaceafillzOnny, don't you have one to spare? :)14:31
replaceafillzOnny, "oh sure, i could reuse novalaciro's"14:32
replaceafillzOnny, buff, 2 hours saved!14:32
replaceafillzOnny, new estimate 4 hours :)14:32
zOnnyreplaceafill: I have not done yet 14:32
replaceafillzOnny, but you see, this is the point of breaking down an estimate14:33
zOnnywell yep 4 hours can be possible14:33
replaceafillzOnny, it helps you realize that maybe it's worth for me to set up a shared vm14:34
zOnny2 hours testing :D14:34
replaceafillzOnny, anyway, good exercise14:35
replaceafillzOnny, try to always break down estimates14:35
zOnnyreplaceafill: good practice on it14:35
replaceafillzOnny, otherwise you're selling your soul to the devil14:35
replaceafill:)14:35
replaceafillkk14:35
replaceafillACTION goes back to work14:35
zOnnyreplaceafill: to be honest I hate the migrations part of tendenci7 :(14:37
replaceafillzOnny, +114:38
zOnnyreplaceafill: good to see that they changed it in tendenci11 :D14:38
replaceafillzOnny, indeed14:39
zOnnyreplaceafill: ttyl14:39
replaceafillzOnny, o/14:39
replaceafillACTION goes to get lunch, bb in ~4015:06
replaceafillACTION is back15:31
zOnnyreplaceafill: one question15:32
replaceafillzOnny, yes?15:33
zOnnyare u familiar with node.js ?15:33
replaceafillzOnny, not a lot15:33
zOnnyreplaceafill: np15:34
replaceafillzOnny, are you using it for something?15:34
replaceafillmr_german, are you here?15:34
mr_germanreplaceafill, yes15:35
replaceafillmr_german, mind if i create the elizabethguzman branches?15:35
zOnnyreplaceafill: I am kind of familiar in my local server15:35
replaceafillmr_german, i have the testing instance almost ready15:35
replaceafillmr_german, and would like to finish the setup now15:35
mr_germanreplaceafill, ok, do it15:36
replaceafillmr_german, kk, thanks15:36
replaceafillmr_german, branches and dev CI in place: https://elizabethguzman.novawebdevelopment.org/15:48
mr_germanreplaceafill, i think you need to to change tendenci2018 to nova15:49
mr_germanreplaceafill, base.css doesn't work15:49
replaceafillmr_german, what do you mean?15:50
mr_germanreplaceafill, look the logo and the  homepage15:50
mr_germanbase.css - doesn't work15:50
replaceafillhttps://elizabethguzman.novawebdevelopment.org/themes/nova/media/css/base.css15:51
replaceafillmr_german, but i think i understand what you mean15:51
replaceafillmr_german, it's the layout that is wrong15:52
replaceafillmr_german, it's because the 2018 boxes haven't been loaded15:54
replaceafillmr_german, but i don't think you'll need any of this, right?15:54
replaceafillmr_german, compare15:55
replaceafillhttps://novawebdev.novawebdevelopment.org/admin/boxes/box/1/15:55
replaceafillhttps://elizabethguzman.novawebdevelopment.org/admin/boxes/box/1/?next=/15:55
mr_germanyes15:58
replaceafillmr_german, so you're good, right?15:58
replaceafillmr_german, i'll set up the production server once you have a basic design15:59
mr_germanmm no, i think you don't know what I mean15:59
mr_germansi se da cuenta en la homepage el logo no tiene estilo del base.css y las cajas tampoco15:59
mr_germaneso se arreglaba16:00
mr_germanhaciendo lo del16:00
mr_germanpython shell16:00
replaceafillmr_german, por que decis que el logo no tiene estilo?16:00
mr_germanpq se ve grande y fuera del header16:00
replaceafillmr_german, es por la caja!16:00
replaceafillmr_german, dale click derecho y mira los estilos16:01
replaceafillmr_german, esto lo esta heredando de base.css:16:01
replaceafillp, li {16:01
replaceafill    font-size: 16px;16:01
replaceafill}16:01
mr_germanpero eso no era problema porque yo lo pude arreglar16:01
mr_germanaun siendo el 201816:01
mr_germanhaciendole eso16:01
replaceafillmr_german, mejor te llamo16:02
*** mjsir911 has joined #novawebdev17:34
jelknerACTION signs off until tomorrow morning17:34
*** mjsir911 has joined #novawebdev21:22

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